Gun control

Fyro_sl said:

You are delusional if you think this is a good thing. Do we really want to have our kids grow up in a police state? Scared of the teacher with the gun...?

We need to remember that these mass shootings are anomalies. You cannot possibly defend against them all. You can't put armed guards in EVERY single school- nor can you arm all teachers.

Yeah, Utah does it. Hope it works out well for them. I am glad the rest of the US has not adopted this policy. I truly believe it would be the wrong decision on so many levels.

You pro-gun people talk about knee-jerk reactions of banning all guns, well I feel strongly that arming teachers and the idea of putting guards in every school is also a knee-jerk reaction on the same level of stupid.

Click to expand...

The problem is you fears about allowing teachers to conceal carried just hasn't come to fruition. In addition to Utah, Oklahoma, Missouri, Minnesota, South Dakota and Oregon all allow teachers to conceal carry. Also there are several other states (Ohio, Texas, Arizona along with a couple of others) allow it at the discretion of individual school districts. So far, there have been zero incidents involving a teachers gun.

On the other hand, at schools that are in gun free zones.... well we know what has happened at those schools. I just don't see what is making you think that teachers concealed carrying is a wrong decision on so many levels. I don't see what evidence is supporting that belief.

opiate82_sl said:

The problem is you fears about allowing teachers to conceal carried just hasn't come to fruition. In addition to Utah, Oklahoma, Missouri, Minnesota, South Dakota and Oregon all allow teachers to conceal carry. Also there are several other states (Ohio, Texas, Arizona along with a couple of others) allow it at the discretion of individual school districts. So far, there have been zero incidents involving a teachers gun.

On the other hand, at schools that are in gun free zones.... well we know what has happened at those schools. I just don't see what is making you think that teachers concealed carrying is a wrong decision on so many levels. I don't see what evidence is supporting that belief.

Click to expand...

The last thing we need are MORE guns on campus. The last thing we need are children being exposed to this sort of fear indoctrination. Education is about a free and open environment where learning and ideas are fostered. Having armed teachers or officers in the class room is going to have a marked effect on the children coming out the educational system as adults. Schools are devolving into high security prisons.

We live in a fucked up world. This is the result. It isn't guns or video games or psychological disorders; it's a reflection of reality.

Beef Supreme_sl said:

The last thing we need are MORE guns on campus. The last thing we need are children being exposed to this sort of fear indoctrination. Education is about a free and open environment where learning and ideas are fostered. Having armed teachers or officers in the class room is going to have a marked effect on the children coming out the educational system as adults. Schools are devolving into high security prisons.

We live in a fucked up world. This is the result. It isn't guns or video games or psychological disorders; it's a reflection of reality.

Click to expand...

Then how do you purpose we address the safety of children at schools? As long as schools remain "gun free zones" children are going to be targets for psychopaths who snap and decide to rack up body counts. Do you really think what they saw and the news after Sandy Hook wasn't exposing them to a sort of fear indoctrination? We aren't talking about armed guards, we are talking about allowing teachers to concealed carry. Concealed. The students shouldn't ever even know a gun was ever present in the classroom.

opiate82_sl said:

Then how do you purpose we address the safety of children at schools? As long as schools remain "gun free zones" children are going to be targets for psychopaths who snap and decide to rack up body counts. Do you really think what they saw and the news after Sandy Hook wasn't exposing them to a sort of fear indoctrination? We aren't talking about armed guards, we are talking about allowing teachers to concealed carry. Concealed. The students shouldn't ever even know a gun was ever present in the classroom.

Click to expand...

You bring up some serious points the answers to which, I don't have.

I agree, what are we going to do about safety? Gun violence isn't widespread outside of some hardcore inner-city schools, so why do we need guns, concealed or not, in the ones with no history of gun violence?

Honestly, it looks like the issue is just more work, more responsibility on the school system itself to identify and support bullying and minority (not necessarily race, but clique-mentality as well) issues with its student populations. Finding and addressing the root of this behavior can go a long ways to making it disappear. However, I don't feel that there is a "pill" that can fix these issues; they are hard societal issues, not easily solved by BAs in primary and secondary education. Maybe instead of DHS and our massive imperial war machine, we could have people integrated into the schools that act as emotional teachers; someone to talk to about growing up, life and home problems, puberty, etc. Having someone to talk to, that you can turn to, goes miles for children who just need someone to vent their problems and frustrations to. Yeah, it sounds a bit fruity, but we need to address the strain that our society is placing on its youth.

Yes, I think the media is culpable for raising awareness about how big of a deal it would be for future gun spree violence. They are creating the outlet for these individuals to act out; for their egos' to flex.

I don't have a problem with a police liaison corps where they are part of the curriculum; where they are integrated into the education and growth of children. I just don't see why they need to be inside the classroom itself. Guns at school, but not INSIDE classrooms, is something that has some merit, but as with anything, isn't 100%.

opiate82_sl said:

Then how do you purpose we address the safety of children at schools? As long as schools remain "gun free zones" children are going to be targets for psychopaths who snap and decide to rack up body counts. Do you really think what they saw and the news after Sandy Hook wasn't exposing them to a sort of fear indoctrination? We aren't talking about armed guards, we are talking about allowing teachers to concealed carry. Concealed.The students shouldn't ever even know a gun was ever present in the classroom.

Click to expand...

I really don't buy this line of thinking. If a school district switches from gun free to allowing teachers with cc to carry in the classroom, the students may not know whether Mr. Smith or Mr. Jones is packing, but such a switch will make enough of a splash for news to spread which will then lead to the natural conclusion thatsometeachers are carrying. Knowing which specific teacher is carrying is irrelevant in comparison to the knowledge that some guns are now floating through the school, shrouded by the cloak of anonymity.

Soysauceonrice_sl said:

I really don't buy this line of thinking. If a school district switches from gun free to allowing teachers with cc to carry in the classroom, the students may not know whether Mr. Smith or Mr. Jones is packing, but such a switch will make enough of a splash for news to spread which will then lead to the natural conclusion thatsometeachers are carrying. Knowing which specific teacher is carrying is irrelevant in comparison to the knowledge that some guns are now floating through the school, shrouded by the cloak of anonymity.

Click to expand...

The real danger here is:
Teachers are fucktards.

Think of all the times news stories come out about teacher-student sex. or students finding alcohol teachers have, or porn on PC's, etc.
Teachers carrying, is another gun that can find its way into a students hand.

A guard, well that is their only job, keeping an eye on that gun at all times.

opiate82_sl said:

Then how do you purpose we address the safety of children at schools? As long as schools remain "gun free zones" children are going to be targets for psychopaths who snap and decide to rack up body counts. Do you really think what they saw and the news after Sandy Hook wasn't exposing them to a sort of fear indoctrination? We aren't talking about armed guards, we are talking about allowing teachers to concealed carry. Concealed. The students shouldn't ever even know a gun was ever present in the classroom.

Click to expand...

are you suggesting there is a problem with the safety of children at schools?

What sort of marked effect would growing up around guns have on children? Chances are, there's a ton of establishments you or your children do business with on a daily basis where a gun is somewhere behind the scenes. Being around guns doesn't alter your psyche and make you the criminally insane.

Caliane_sl said:

are you suggesting there is a problem with the safety of children at schools?

Click to expand...

Our President sure is suggesting that. Despite what you or I think.

I did my kentucky conceled carry, it required me watching a long video on state and federal law's.
We then had to do a written test about said law's.
We we were asked the purpose for a cc liscense, anyone spouting off gung ho bs was dismissed from class.
After that we went to a range were we was taught the proper use of hand gun's, and their cleaning ." though Only having to hit a target at 7 yards in certain area's was fairley easy".
Finally we paid up and then it became a waiting game after getting our picture's to the sherriff's office.

Now imaging if they decide to make that mandatory for every gun owner, rather it be cc or oc.

Beef Supreme_sl said:

Honestly, it looks like the issue is just more work, more responsibility on the school system itself to identify and support bullying and minority (not necessarily race, but clique-mentality as well) issues with its student populations. Finding and addressing the root of this behavior can go a long ways to making it disappear. However, I don't feel that there is a "pill" that can fix these issues; they are hard societal issues, not easily solved by BAs in primary and secondary education. Maybe instead of DHS and our massive imperial war machine, we could have people integrated into the schools that act as emotional teachers; someone to talk to about growing up, life and home problems, puberty, etc. Having someone to talk to, that you can turn to, goes miles for children who just need someone to vent their problems and frustrations to. Yeah, it sounds a bit fruity, but we need to address the strain that our society is placing on its youth.

Click to expand...

Oh fuck no, as if not enough children have been turned into a bunch of feminized fags; you're suggestion would make it complete. They don't need a fucking shrink, they need to be allowed to blow off steam. These no tolerance rules regarding fighting are the problem.

Was looking for some numbers of gun related deaths in schools, but found this pdf on children gun deaths in general.

http://www.childrensdefense.org/chil...-guns-2012.pdf

Most interesting I thought was the shift from suicides to homicides. Adults, suicides are the largest # of gun deaths.
Kids its homicide.
But also, this shows, in black kids under 20 vast majority is homicides.
Black 2008. total deaths under 20, 1371. 1228 homicide. 95 suicide. +Accident/undetermined.
White 2008 total deaths under 20, 1488. 762 homicide. 624 suicides. +accident/undetermined.

Wth is white suicide rates?
This doesn't give overall populations though. Need to look for that, I suppose. rate could be the same or close, and just have much higher total pop. Although, that just further shows how out of control homicides are in black communities.

Ah later it says.
that black is27.6% per 100k, while the white is 3.6% in 2009

Soysauceonrice_sl said:

I really don't buy this line of thinking. If a school district switches from gun free to allowing teachers with cc to carry in the classroom, the students may not know whether Mr. Smith or Mr. Jones is packing, but such a switch will make enough of a splash for news to spread which will then lead to the natural conclusion thatsometeachers are carrying. Knowing which specific teacher is carrying is irrelevant in comparison to the knowledge that some guns are now floating through the school, shrouded by the cloak of anonymity.

Click to expand...

I have an honest question. I do not own any guns, I have never fired a pistol in my life. How would a teacher wearing professional attire conceal a weapon on their person? It seems to me (and as I mentioned I am not overly familiar with this) that it would be rather easy for students to identify who was carrying and who was not.

Anyways, don't flagellate me if my understanding of concealing weapons is faulty.

Fyro_sl said:

I have an honest question. I do not own any guns, I have never fired a pistol in my life. How would a teacher wearing professional attire conceal a weapon on their person? It seems to me (and as I mentioned I am not overly familiar with this) that it would be rather easy for students to identify who was carrying and who was not.

Anyways, don't flagellate me if my understanding of concealing weapons is faulty.

Click to expand...

Just wearing a normal button up long sleeve shirt provides a lot of concealment space.

Fyro_sl said:

I have an honest question. I do not own any guns, I have never fired a pistol in my life. How would a teacher wearing professional attire conceal a weapon on their person? It seems to me (and as I mentioned I am not overly familiar with this) that it would be rather easy for students to identify who was carrying and who was not.

Anyways, don't flagellate me if my understanding of concealing weapons is faulty.

Click to expand...

If you live in a shall-issue state, I think you would be surprised to know that right now lots of people around you everyday are carrying and you never notice.

Flunklesnarkin_sl said:

Just wearing a normal button up long sleeve shirt provides a lot of concealment space.

Click to expand...

I know plenty of clothes that I wear in class where that would poke through and show. That is similar to what I had thought it might look like. I don't know what type of long sleeve dress shirts you wear, but they need to be nicely fit and it would be known by students who was carrying if they had the gun in that spot.

Also on a side note- I love how the second picture with the woman you can clearly see her nipple definition. I mean Christ, if we can't hide nipples how are we to hide guns....?


@Zodiac - I think if you stood for 8 hours a day in front of 200 pairs of eyes someone would realize eventually who is and isn't carrying.

Nipple police :O

There are smaller guns out there. That was just a stock photo showing what it looks like. There are other places to conceal weapons also. The point is if a teacher is uncomfortable carrying and concealing a weapon they probably won't opt to do so.

Fyro_sl said:

I know plenty of clothes that I wear in class where that would poke through and show. That is similar to what I had thought it might look like. I don't know what type of long sleeve dress shirts you wear, but they need to be nicely fit and it would be known by students who was carrying if they had the gun in that spot.

Also on a side note- I love how the second picture with the woman you can clearly see her nipple definition. I mean Christ, if we can't hide nipples how are we to hide guns....?


@Zodiac - I think if you stood for 8 hours a day in front of 200 pairs of eyes someone would realize eventually who is and isn't carrying.

Click to expand...

You do have to wear different clothes if you don't want to print. Supper fitted shirts are a no-go and if you wear IWB you normally have to go up one-two pants sizes.