B_Mizzle
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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That's just the left being the left. What gets me is that they were told not to do it, they did it anyway, and then tried to lie about it. Comical really.
Gun control
- Thread starter Saladus
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
I agree with this general premise. I'm fine with having armed police officers in schools -- both my middle school and high school had an armed police officer. But allowing armed teachers in school, I think, is absolute stupidity.
A lot of people will make the argument that if you have the proper training to have a cc license, why can't a teacher carry in the school setting ? But the key difference that this argument ignores is that someone with a cc is given authority to carry for self protection. But when you envision allowing a teacher to carry a gun in schools, they are not doing so for self protection, but their roll now is that of enforcement and protecting others. Such an expanded roll absolutely requires someone with specialized training and someone who is focused on this task and this task only. I don't want Mrs. Jones to worry about balancing between committing enough time to her lesson plan and the shooting range.
The idea is based on the reality that Utah has had armed teachers in classrooms for the past 12 years without a problem.
I wouldn't be against a more strict qualification program but to say there would be problems isn't based on reality. Much like these proposed bans on semi automatic weapons.
Hand guns are used in most gun violence. Why not discuss the bigger problem instead of focusing on a weapon that doesn't even have a crime statistic because of how rare it is.
Something folks may want to watch. I have not watched the entire thing yet, but want to share with everyone to make their own opinions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx9GxXYKx_8
Utah is also only representative of about what, 6% of the entire nation's population? Lets do the same in all of NY, California, and Texas for a few years and the chance of a problem arising will increase exponentially. Taking your argument, I can say that school shootings are not a big deal because I don't remember any mass school shootings in Hawaii.
Additionally, regardless of what your position, you MUST agree that having guns in school will increase the likelihood of a student being shot in that school. The chance may be large, or it may be small, and thus worth taking. However, it is indisputable that the risk, however minimal, is there. So again, taking your Utah example, as far as I'm aware, there has not been a single incident in which a school shooter was stopped by an armed teacher. So if no measurable benefit has been realized, why accept the marginal risk of having guns in schools ?
Good to know, but irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. You can't point to an extremely small subset of the population (Utah), and then point to the lack of an extremely rare occurrence (teachers misusing their guns) in that small subset, to prove that what is being done in that small subset would work when extrapolated out to the general population.
Most people here have been trying to dispel this idea that life can be without risk. There will always be risk, the question is how you manage it.
Having a good guy with a gun manages the risk of a bad guy with a gun coming into a school. Students have been known to bring guns to schools also.
Just sayin'
I don't think Utah's program should be copied in it's entirety to every state. I do think the idea is valid though.
opiate82
Bronze Squire
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There are 13 states (and counting) that allow teachers to conceal carry in some form. 6 in which there are no restrictions on it, 7 that allow it with certain restrictions and/or at the discretion of the school districts.
Great. Looks like she's an armed guard, which i have no problem with. Most schools already have armed guards/police, who are specifically trained as enforcement officers and protectors of the public. So why put MORE guns in schools in the hands of those not as well trained when, by your evidence, an armed guard would work just as well ?Also:
And how often has the teachers in those states stopped a shooting ? I'm not saying that a teacher couldn't stop an armed shooter, but I'm dubious to the claim that more guns, in the hands of teachers, would outweight the risk of those teachers having the guns in the first place.
Do you think it's impossible for a teacher to be as qualified as an armed guard?
You do realize it doesn't take a whole lot to become qualified as an armed guard.
The key word is specialization -- you do best that which you specialize in doing. You can see this everywhere, from an economics 101 textbook to automobile production lines. A cop has no other purpose than to carry the gun and protect those that inhabit the school. The teacher, by contrast, has to worry about grades, tests, lesson plans, discipline, TEACHING, parent teacher conferences, etc. The teacher is already wearing multiple hats. When you consider how important the job of carrying a gun in a venue filled with children is, carrying a gun should be that person's sole focus and purpose.
So what I want an answer to is, if the armed police officer is an adequate solution to the problem, why go further by advocating something as insane as allowing armed teachers ? This sounds exactly like the extreme overreaction that the pro-gun crowd is complaining about.
I think the decision should be left up to the individual school district. What works here in OK will not work in Chicago or LA. That's the problem with so many of these issues. One size fits all legislation will not work across the entire populace.
Zodiac
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I don't care about arming every teacher, that's just silly. I just think it's dumb that a person with a CHL who carrieseverywhere else everydayhas to leave their gun in the car when they enter the school whether they be a teacher, principle, other administrator or whatever.
We have gone over this before in this thread. Most cops are not any more competent with a firearm than a civilian. Their purpose is not to carry a gun, that is the extreme last resort and the vast majority of the are grossly undertrained with firearms.
It's not dumb at all. Your premise is false -- a CHL doesn't allow you to carry your gun everywhere. For example, you can't carry your gun on a plane or in a federal courthouse, regardless of what license you have. The special interest in disallowing guns in courthouses and airplanes are obvious. The special interest in disallowing guns in schools is the high concentration of children, which we as a society place greater importance on.
Court houses also have an armed police force. Not every school has an armed police force and most schools only have one or two armed guards. It's really a bad example to compare schools to court houses.
The only thing restricting legal gun owners from carrying in schools does is make it so the criminals know there will not be armed resistance in certain places.
Common sense suggests otherwise. Unless you have some actual authority you can cite to, I don't buy that someone who carries a weapon for their profession is less proficient than someone who does not. And I would say that for a police officer that carries a gun in a school, protection and enforcement IS his only job.