Gun control
- Thread starter Saladus
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You really need to read what I'm saying more carefully. I'm only bringing up the courthouse to disprove his notion that a CHL allows you to carry guns EVERYWHERE. I know about the fact that courthouses have their own police force, I worked in one last summer. My point is, allowing TEACHERS to carry guns seem like an extreme overreach, especially when it is, so far, impossible to prove that having a teacher would be any more beneficial than having an armed guard or police officer in the school. You complain about the gun control freaks overreacting and banning "assault weapons", then you go and overreact yourself by suggesting that TEACHERS, who already have plenty of shit to do, should be allowed to carry as well ? Sounds like the same overreaction that you are railing against.
You keep skipping over the fact that a teacher can be just as qualified as a police officer or security guard and it wouldn't cost the state / government any extra money.
Increasing the police force would require massive spending.
Common sense dictates that if a police officer can become qualified to carry a gun into a school, so can a teacher / parent. Just getting a police/security badge doesn't suddenly imbue a police officer / armed guard with a mystical ability that nobody else can posses or learn.
First, this doesn't prove that civilians are more proficient than a policeman, because the policeman is also taking on the roll ofenforcement, whereas the civilian is only worried about protecting himself. Compare the statistics between police officers and say, neighborhood watches that carry guns, and I'll be more convinced.
Zodiac
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Very true, there are places you cannot carry. The point I was trying to make though is that for people who carry it's not extra "shit to do". Carrying is just a normal everyday thing to a lot people. You put on your pants, put on your belt and your gun.
When I have to go to Court houses and airports (past the terminals here) I am ok with being disarmed because I know that everyone else had to go through security to get inside. It's the other "gun free zones" that worries people.
I didn't skip over it at all. I specifically addressed your point. Just because a teacher can go out and take a few classes to get a CHL does not make that teacher "just as qualified" as a cop that has been carrying and shooting a gun at the beginning of his career.
You appeal to common sense but your common sense ... doesn't make any sense. In general, anyone CAN become as proficient as ANY OTHER PERSON in carrying a gun in a school, but ONLY WHEN they are applying the same amount of work, effort, and practice. A teacher that carries a gun cannot apply the same work and effort because she has to divide her attention into multiple roles -- that of a protector and enforcer, and that of a teacher. The cop in the school has 1 role and 1 role only.
Allowing teachers / parents to carry guns into schools costs the state / government nothing. Allocating massive amounts of money for police / security would increase spending.
It's a valid idea looking at the facts on the ground.
I'm sure if there was an incident somewhere that a teacher or parent went retard and shot up a class it would be plastered everywhere as a counter point.
You claim to base your logic on facts, but there is no factually substantiated reason to completely restrict gun access in schools.
opiate82
Bronze Squire
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The problem is all these cops you want to put in all these schools need to get paid. Just some quick Googling and estimating puts the cost at $5.3 billion dollars annually to put an officer in every school. If we can get the funding, great, put an armed officer at every school. But coming up with the funding is going to be extremely problematic.
Your arguing that a police presences is better than a teacher concealed carrying.
We are arguing that a teacher concealed carrying is better than nothing.
Your arguing that a police presences is better than a teacher concealed carrying.
We are arguing that a teacher concealed carrying is better than nothing.
This idea wouldn't add anything to a teachers plate.
It would allow a teacher who felt capable of going through the qualification to carry a gun in a school the option to do so.
opiate82
Bronze Squire
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How are you going to pay for all these guards?
What about the teachers who already carry, maintain and store their guns because they are already responsible gun owners? (So it won't be adding any additional burden because they already do those things on their own).
Do you even own or maintain a gun ? I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a handgun, and it takes continuous effort to secure and maintain these guns in my apartment that I share with no one else. Are you seriously going to tell me that it would take no effort to keep track of a gun in a school filed with kids ?
I said this wouldn't add anything to a teachers plate. Are you now moving the goal posts?
A guard probably makes as much as a teacher. If a school district considers gun violence in school as serious a threat as to consider allowing armed teachers in schools, they can afford hiring 1 armed guard. The fact that many schools already have armed guards/police proves that this isn't as onerous an obstacle as you're make it out to be.
Lol wtf how am i moving the goalpost ? You're saying adding the maintenance and carrying of a gun in a school setting won't add anything to a teacher's plate. I'm saying that, as a gun owner, maintaining and carrying a gun IN MY OWN HOME takes work, let alone in an environment crawling with nosy and inquisitive kids. How does adding the carrying of a gun in a school not adding anything to a teacher's plate ? How is this moving the goalpost ? I simply want to know the basis from which you are suggesting that adding the responsibility of carrying a gun in a school is not "adding to a teacher's plate".
opiate82
Bronze Squire
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I believe it is, because if it wasn't, we already would have had armed guards at every school after Columbine. Schools across the country are struggling financially. They can't afford to hire enough teachers as is but you think they can afford guards? You have a disconnect from reality there.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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A lot of things are out of proportion across racial lines, like poverty and education levels or social mobility.
I didn't even realize how old this post was I responded to until after posting the reply. Man, it is like every thread Mikhail or fanaskin find turns to shit.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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You aren't adding the responsibility, they would be CHOOSING to take it upon themselves.
It's pointless to debate a post with no substance. Try not shit posting next time and maybe you will add to the discussion.
/shrug. Texas schools have had their school budgets slashed by quite a bit in the last few years and I know that my old highschool and jr. high still has armed police there. Money is tight, i get that, but if safety is valued by the school district, then 1 cop in the school as opposed to 0 cop in the school is a better investment than 20 teachers in the school as opposed to 19 teachers in the school. If a district doesn't have the money and it values school safety enough to consider having teachers armed, then it should fire 1 teacher and hire the cop. If there is no cop, then the school district is making a conscious choice not to hire the cop, not because they don't have money to.