Gun control

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You have been wildly out of touch with reality for this entire conversation, but I think this takes the cake. How could someone possibly spend significantly more time training than someone else and not be more qualified than the lesser trained person? I mean I'm sure there are CHL holders who do the bare minimum in order to be allowed to keep carrying, but the bottom line is that it's a hobby for most of them, so presumably it's something they enjoy. For cops, firearms are part of work, so unless that cop happens to enjoy firearms as a hobby also, why would you assume he would spend any more time beyond the bare minimum to keep his job, just like every other American.
You're drawing a conclusion from something I never said. I never said that someone who spends significantly more time practicing a skill is not more qualified than a lesser trained person. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. But my point is this. He is making 2 assumptions, basically. 1) that a CHL holder fires his weapon more than what is required by the cop to qualify (not too much of a stretch) and 2) A police officer ONLY fires his gun when he is required to do so to qualify (an extreme stretch). Thus, the comparison he is making is between a gun enthusiast that is not a cop and a cop that is a slackass that only does the bare minimum. The qualification requirements is the floor -- the bare minimum that is required. His point would only be valid if it was the MAXIMUM that a cop can train with his gun. This is not the case.

So I go back to my point. Because the qualification requirements are but the bare minimum, even if i accept the first assumption, that most CHL holders fire more than is required by a cop to qualify, this does not compel the conclusion that a CHL holder is more proficient than the cop with the gun.
 

HogTurd_sl

shitlord
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What do you mean by reactionary press? The press covers events that happen. Also, there are people (I heard Joe Lieberman bring up video games today) who make an argument against media like video game makers, but that does not mean they are correct or in the right. It takes other people to make counter arguments as to why the other one sucks.
The press covers the events they want to in order to sell ratings. Corpses = ratings. Having specials about crazy mass murderers = ratings.
The press chooses not to cover the birth and peaceful sale of a litter of cute puppies. Niceness does not sell ratings.

The proliferation of violence, both in images and in the fame received by the reporting of actions and persons that do these terrible acts is what is causing more and more of them to occur. It's like crossing a street at a crosswalk when the Do Not Walk sign is up. Everyone stands there even when there's no traffic until that one guy says screw it and walks, and then we all follow. Same psychological phenomenon. When we see others doing something, even a mass murder, it makes it just a little bit more okay in our heads.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
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Do you even own or maintain a gun ? I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a handgun, and it takes continuous effort to secure and maintain these guns in my apartment that I share with no one else. Are you seriously going to tell me that it would take no effort to keep track of a gun in a school filed with kids ?
How the fuck does it take continuous effort to secure and maintain your guns in an apartment you are by yourself in? Are you continually holding your safe up in the air?

As for maintaining, takes just a few minutes to completely strip and clean most guns. It isn't a huge burden.
 
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How the fuck does it take continuous effort to secure and maintain your guns in an apartment you are by yourself in? Are you continually holding your safe up in the air?
Because I'm not a hermit. I have friends who come over to the house and also nieces and nephews that visit often when I babysit for when their parents want date night. And this is only on occasions when I have guests. A teacher in a school is carrying a gun around hordes of children every time he comes to work.

I do admit that perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I'd honestly rather spend more time worrying about this shit than less.
 

Aychamo BanBan

<Banned>
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Because I'm not a hermit. I have friends who come over to the house and also nieces and nephews that visit often when I babysit for when their parents want date night. And this is only on occasions when I have guests. A teacher in a school is carrying a gun around hordes of children every time he comes to work.

I do admit that perhaps I'm being overly cautious, but I'd honestly rather spend more time worrying about this shit than less.
Buy a gun safe.http://www.libertysafe.comIt's pretty irresponsible to keep guns without a gun safe.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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It's probably been mentioned earlier (44 pages - not going through all of it) - but gun education should be a priority. As well as the recent conservative meme of "mental health being a priority". (Ironic since they're the ones that gutted them 20 years ago... but alas)

I'm all for people having guns (although I'm personally leery around pistols - I respect GUN EDUCATED people with them), own some hunting rifles myself - but the amount of people that own a gun just because and don't even know basics like how the goddamn safety works astounds me. (Or that think a safety is pointless to ever leave on for a hunting rifle! I've got a friend who can attest to why - he's missing two toes on his left foot)

[And of course gun safes - but aren't those required in most states these days?]
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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You'd have to be a pretty big idiot to not understand how safeties work. Which I guess describes your average human being. Fuck I handled a Glock 19 for the first time the other day and the first thing I thought was 'ermagerd it has no safety'. Then 5 seconds later I figured out it the safety was on the trigger itself. Don't really understand exactly how safe action triggers work, and someone who has never handled a weapon before should probably stick to something with an external manual safety, but the concept of weapon safeties is such a basic one that people having trouble with them really mystifies me.
 

Beef Supreme_sl

shitlord
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Your kid is much more statistically likely to be the victim of a shitty education than they are a mass shooter. I'll take the additional teacher and then allow them to conceal carry as the best use of resources mixed with an added layer of protection for my kids.
This. We are find more and more money to NOT spend on the actual education of our youth.
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
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You really need to read what I'm saying more carefully. I'm only bringing up the courthouse to disprove his notion that a CHL allows you to carry guns EVERYWHERE. I know about the fact that courthouses have their own police force, I worked in one last summer. My point is, allowing TEACHERS to carry guns seem like an extreme overreach, especially when it is, so far, impossible to prove that having a teacher would be any more beneficial than having an armed guard or police officer in the school. You complain about the gun control freaks overreacting and banning "assault weapons", then you go and overreact yourself by suggesting that TEACHERS, who already have plenty of shit to do, should be allowed to carry as well ? Sounds like the same overreaction that you are railing against.
An extreme overreach? Overreaction? Says who? Teachers are already carrying in the classroom in some states.
 

Zombie Thorne_sl

shitlord
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You're drawing a conclusion from something I never said. I never said that someone who spends significantly more time practicing a skill is not more qualified than a lesser trained person. I'm curious how you came to this conclusion. But my point is this. He is making 2 assumptions, basically. 1) that a CHL holder fires his weapon more than what is required by the cop to qualify (not too much of a stretch) and 2) A police officer ONLY fires his gun when he is required to do so to qualify (an extreme stretch). Thus, the comparison he is making is between a gun enthusiast that is not a cop and a cop that is a slackass that only does the bare minimum. The qualification requirements is the floor -- the bare minimum that is required. His point would only be valid if it was the MAXIMUM that a cop can train with his gun. This is not the case.

So I go back to my point. Because the qualification requirements are but the bare minimum, even if i accept the first assumption, that most CHL holders fire more than is required by a cop to qualify, this does not compel the conclusion that a CHL holder is more proficient than the cop with the gun.
I train officers on a monthly basis. I know exactly what proficiencies they have and don't have. All I'm saying is the general publics assumption that officers are event proficient with their weapons is just wrong. I wish it wasnt the case, and so do they. Departments budgets don't allow for much training. Hence me volunteering my time for the ones that want to learn.
 

Beef Supreme_sl

shitlord
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I train officers on a monthly basis. I know exactly what proficiencies they have and don't have. All I'm saying is the general publics assumption that officers are event proficient with their weapons is just wrong. I wish it wasnt the case, and so do they. Departments budgets don't allow for much training. Hence me volunteering my time for the ones that want to learn.
This. Being issued a sidearm does not a Master Chief make. The LESS guns at school, the better. What's to stop a gaggle of ne'er-do-wells from over powering a teacher and disarming him/her?
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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This. Being issued a sidearm does not a Master Chief make. The LESS guns at school, the better. What's to stop a gaggle of ne'er-do-wells from over powering a teacher and disarming him/her?
I dunno, how about the fact that it hasn't happened in the thirteen states where teachers are allowed to carry in schools?
 

Beef Supreme_sl

shitlord
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How many Sally McTeachers are going to both choose to carry a gun AND be stupid enough to let her students know she has one?
Enough. I used to work for a school district bro. Teachers are as fallible as the anyone, and within the confines of a classroom, there's not a lot of room for error if/when a teacher decides to draw down on a student.

I get your point though, and I still don't think there is a valid solution out in the vernacular right now. Having CCW'd teachers sounds good on paper, but the first time it goes south, its just another slight against teachers. Teachers wear a lot of hats, being the law isn't one they are suited to wear; nor should they be tasked with such a role.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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I know that children bum rushing people with guns is a huge problem in today's society. Everytime I go to a gun show, a shooting range or go hunting I constantly see hordes of suicidal children charging at people holding guns.