Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Oh I think 100% of teachers who would conceal carry in a classroom would spend a significant amount of time every day fantasizing themselves shoot specific individuals in their classroom.
Gun control
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Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Yeah the 'don't give teachers the burden of having the choice to concealed carry' argument holds no water. Beef Supreme is grasping for straws here.
That being only one state also. I'm not suggesting all states copy Utah's model exactly, they do have the most lenient armed teacher rules.
Other states have done this as well, but if your only point is the entire country hasn't tried out armed teachers so statistics are irrelevant then what's the point of even looking at statistics you have already deemed useless.
People here have been explaining why the idea has merit and the only counter argument we keep getting is "this is stupid" or nonsense that has no basis in reality.
If there was a real problem incident, even one, I'm sure it would be plastered every where as evidence of how guns are evil and should not be in schools. They do that with every single emotionally exploitative gun shooting already and rarely give media coverage to shootings that were defensive or saved lives.
Like that Georgia mom who shot an intruder breaking into her house so she could protect her children when they were discovered hiding in a closet. Nope, that has to be ignored so they can talk about some nutjob doomsday prepper on CNN.
Other states have done this as well, but if your only point is the entire country hasn't tried out armed teachers so statistics are irrelevant then what's the point of even looking at statistics you have already deemed useless.
People here have been explaining why the idea has merit and the only counter argument we keep getting is "this is stupid" or nonsense that has no basis in reality.
If there was a real problem incident, even one, I'm sure it would be plastered every where as evidence of how guns are evil and should not be in schools. They do that with every single emotionally exploitative gun shooting already and rarely give media coverage to shootings that were defensive or saved lives.
Like that Georgia mom who shot an intruder breaking into her house so she could protect her children when they were discovered hiding in a closet. Nope, that has to be ignored so they can talk about some nutjob doomsday prepper on CNN.
Well think about it. In the last 10 years or so, how many school shootings can you rememberin the entire country? Maybe 5, or 6 ? And this is when we include all 50 states and all 300 million Americans. The school shooting, in of itself, is extremely rare. How can you have any confidence in any statistics when you are trying to predict such a rare event in 1/100th of the general population ?
Well, when you put it that way, why should we even bother doing anything as a result of recent shootings? It is rare after all.
I'm sure there are much better things to devote our time to, like child choking hazards or child drownings.
What sort of sample size would be adequate?
I wonder how many clinical studies have used close to 1% of the population. It seems like you want us to appeal to your emotional needs rather than you admitting that the number is more than adequate.
A clinical study with 1% of the population would be great if that 1% could actually capture some people that had the disease that they are testing for. I mean, say you're testing the efficacy of a drug on the HIV virus, but the virus is so rare that of the 1% of the population you pick to test the drug, NO ONE HAD the disease. Such a test would be pointless. If the disease in this case is the school shooting, there are some states that hasn't had a school shooting for decades. Picking that 1% to test the usefulness of gun policy wouldn't do much good.
And that's why I want a citation to see how widespread concealed carry in schools really are. We know Utah is pretty liberal in what they allow, but for the other 12 states, we don't know if it's state wide, a few counties, or just 1 city, like in Texas. I'm asking for more information.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Why? By your own admission, school shootings are incredibly rare, so why do you even care? What makes this issue worth your interest?
Because this isn't just about the school shooting in isolation. You're advocating a very specific policy change -- allowing teachers to carry guns in school. I disagree because I think this is an overreaction that attempts to solve a small problem by introducing a cure that could potentially be more harmful than the disease. If you're interested in "winning" the argument, then you should prove to me that your 13 states claim really shows that guns in schools are much more prevalent. After all, the larger the sample size with no adverse effects from allowing teachers to conceal carry, the stronger your case becomes.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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He's all over the place on some weird shit that I don't even understand. But I don't really see it as a necessary benefit or even a helpful one. As I said before to whatshisname, making it voluntary doesn't really make the burden, as you say, disappear. The problem I see with it is that I'm not even sure what problem allowing teachers to concealed carry would address that armed guards/police don't already address in a more effective way. You fall back to all the same issues you have in mass shootings with untrained, inexperienced people being put in situations that they could actually make worse through their negligence. However unintentional. Yeah, I know, cue someone to say that police actually don't get much weapons training or whatever, but I still would trust a police offficer to identify a suspect in the middle of a mass shooting incident over a CCWing teacher who even gets the MOST hours in at the range. You're putting a teacher in a fundamentally different role that they may or may not be acceptable for.
So what sample size would be adequate then? How will you measure the effectiveness of conceal carry for schools that currently allow it?
If you are so interested in the information why don't you google it or look at gun laws state by state.
Why would anybody invest that sort of research time and effort for you when you refuse to accept any sort of evidence contrary to your preformed opinion.
Would showing proof of states that allow teachers to carry guns change your opinion or is this just a red herring.
Why would anybody invest that sort of research time and effort for you when you refuse to accept any sort of evidence contrary to your preformed opinion.
Would showing proof of states that allow teachers to carry guns change your opinion or is this just a red herring.
In my personal opinion ? How about a sample size that includes all of California, New York, and Texas, over the time period of several years. These are the 3 largest states in the country with some of the largest concentrations of urban areas. If the entirety of 13 states fully allow concealed carry, then this might come close. Although I doubt that is the case.
1) I have tried googling it. I failed
2) No one has to invest that time to do the research because presumably someone already has done that research because if you haven't paid attention, that claim is being thrown around quite often. I just want the source. ":Evidence" without a source isn't evidence.
I'd expect the opposite myself, I'd expect a teacher to know who the students / teachers / faculty are better than a police officer and recognize any unknown culprit or potential trouble makers.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I expect the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Bottom line is, schools aren't going to magically become less safe because a select few teachers choose to exercise their legal rights.
I don't really buy that argument mainly from personal experience. When I carry or others in my department carry, we're not thinking about our roles as office Rambo. It's natural to forget you even have it while working.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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How? From your extensive experience identifying suspects? From the cool head you manage to keep while being fucking shot at? Your ability to maneuver and deal with a crowd of panicking victims? Much like Donnie, you'd be totally out of your element as a teacher.
Knowing the troublemakers? Because "known troublemakers" is usually a description used of these school shootings?
The whole thing sounds like a fantasy to me from people who spent too much time playing CS or something.
I found this on my first search. Hopefully that helps you. Happy hunting.http://m.ncsl.org/issues-research/ed...-overview.aspx