Trolling aside, one teacher with a glock 17 in a 40X40 box better be 100% if/when they decide to use it. Just because they are armed does not mean that it's a guaranteed head shot. Any punk ass kid can close that distance in a few seconds and disarm that teacher. Shit happens fast.
Gun control
- Thread starter Saladus
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,740
- 52,294
Again, it hasn't been a problem for the states where teachers are already allowed to carry, so I don't see how it magically turns into a problem if teachers being allowed to carry was expanded to more states. Obviously if you increase the number of teachers carrying, you increase the chance of some sort of incident, but 13 states isn't exactly a small sample size, so there is absolutely nothing to indicate that it wouldn't be an incredibly rare/non-existent problem even if the entire country allowed teachers to carry.
Now certain states are probably far too lax in their CCW licensing requirements, like Florida, but that's a separate issue. With Illinois finally being forced to join the rest of the nation in permitting CCW, I'd really like to see a reasonably strict federal standard for CCW licenses, and for it to be illegal for individual states to impose stricter requirements of their own.
Why are we even talking about this? Why the hell would a teacher be drawing on one of their students who didn't already have a gun? Also I'm pretty sure the number of people suicidal/heroic/stupid enough to charge someone with a gun while they themselves are unarmed is very close to zero, otherwise the various mass shootings of the past several years probably would have had a lower body count.
For some reason I doubt this situation you are envisioning is likely to happen.
Why would a teacher just casually have a gun pointed at a student unless that student already had a gun or was about to murder a student by some other means (knife etc)?
You misunderstand. What I mean is this: Teacher feels compelled to pull out gun. Teacher doesn't have the rocks to pull the trigger. Angry student(s) mob teacher and take gun.
You want a number? In a life or death struggle, the only option for the unarmed is death in your scenario. The whole reason for carrying is to prevent that from happening. Simply pulling a weapon can be enough to get a perp to comply without anyone dying.
Not to mention, if some suicidal maniac wants to rush an armed teacher, don't you think the odds are better for the school then if the teacher wasn't armed? In the least, if there's a struggle, don't you think there's a better chance for another teacher or student to get involved and help the teacher?
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,740
- 52,294
There, saved myself the trouble of responding to your next fourteen arguments too.
Sigh. The armed-teacher debate is zero sum for this reason. It's not going to INCREASE the security in the classrooms because the type of violence it's trying to prevent is nonexistent. The mass shootings did not originate INSIDE the classroom, so why arm your teachers? Again, asking teachers to carry is going down a dark road.
The only reason to pull out a gun is if you are scared for your life. I doubt somebody who is not willing to defend their life would pull a gun if they weren't intent on using it.
Never point a gun at anything you don't intend to kill.
The school already has systems in place that deal with this, without guns. Adding guns adds another level of crisis to the classroom that's not needed.
Your last point is the point: How can you prepare teachers to use their weapon in this way? Why are we tasking teachers to become the classroom sheriff?
I don't view it as tasking teachers with the responsibility. I view it as offering teachers who are already trained and qualified with guns the option to accept additional responsibility. Part of that training should include a psyche exam of some sort to determine if a teacher is capable of using discretion and willing to shoot if necessary.
Can someone point me to the source for the claim that 13 states allow teachers with concealed carry to carry the gun in schools ? I've been trying to dig up information on what states allow guns in the schools to what extent and I'm not having much luck. With respect to Texas, there's a lot of news about a small Texas town near Wichita Falls that allows concealed carry for teachers, but the overwhelming majority of the rest of the state does not.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,740
- 52,294
Nobody is talking about asking teachers to carry, we're talking about allowing teachers to carry. Just like all those other states that already allow it. Also, armed teacher who hears shooting or receives an evacuation order has an increased ability to defend their students while leading them out of the building. Armed administrative staff/teacher without a classroom has the option to attempt to confront the shooter. Not perfect by any means, but better than an unanswered shooting rampage.
Here's the wikipedia article on Utah gun laws.
It has a lot of reference material cited in it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Utah
The reason why I ask is because i want to get a scope of how widespread the allowance for concealed carry in schools really is. I looked at the population numbers; the population of the state of Utah is less than 1% of the population of the entire country -- hardly a persuasive sample size.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,740
- 52,294
How many school shooting have happened in states where teachers are allowed to carry, in a school where a teacher or teachers were carrying?
Stop asking retarded questions.
The violence ends up in the classroom. Unless you're asking why it's so hard to keep a maniac with a gun from walking into a school? I'd say that hardening the schools defense should be the first priority, but you need a lethal option if that fails. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
In whatever self defense scenario you want to imagine, you can't argue that a gun in the hands of the good guys doesn't increase security for that individual.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,740
- 52,294
How many school shooting have happened in states where teachers are allowed to carry, in a school where a teacher or teachers were carrying?
Stop asking retarded questions.
Yeah 3 million people is definitely insignificant.
You're being intellectually dishonest and you know it. THREE MILLION !!! in a vacuum means absolutely dick. THREE MILLION in a country with a population of over 300 million is rather inconsequential.
As to your statement that "there won't be no problems because there hasn't been no problems so far !", this is also dishonest, because if i applied your logic, i can say that allowing teachers to conceal carry in schools is pointless because it hasn't prevented any school shootings. Just because it HAS NOT happened, does not mean that it WILL NEVER happen, especially when we are trying to predict an extremely rare event with a minuscule sample size.
The 13 states number gets thrown around a lot, so I'd really like a citation to it, not just for the sake of this argument, but also for the sake of my own education.
We're asking to grant individuals the right to decide how they want to defend themselves.