Health Care Thread

Hoss · Dec 4, 2013

BoldW_sl said:
So if we're looking at a 41% average increase, and insurers must spend 85% of premium dollars on actual care and "activities to improve health care quality", have costs just gone through the friggin roof? Should we be taking out the "Affordable" part of the ACA?

Basically, obamacare does nothing to address the actual cost of health care, it just tries to make sure it's passed on to everyone through the insurance companies.

Picasso3 · Dec 4, 2013

Cutting Medicaid payments, better interaction between Medicare/Medicaid and the requirement 80% of insurance premiums must go to health care all work to directly decrease costs.

When you limit the money going they'll either not accept the neficare/caid cash cow or be more efficient.

Dashel · Dec 4, 2013

Picasso_sl said:
Cutting Medicaid payments, better interaction between Medicare/Medicaid and the requirement 80% of insurance premiums must go to health care all work to directly decrease costs.

When you limit the money going they'll either not accept the neficare/caid cash cow or be more efficient.

Only if it's single payer. If it's not they just pass the cost on to the people who can pay full cost +. And if/when it does get to take it or leave it, many providers will just shut their doors. Those that dont wont get "more efficient" they'll cut corners and ration care.

Kreugen · Dec 4, 2013

Hoss_sl said:
Basically, obamacare does nothing to address the actual cost of health care, it just tries to make sure it's passed on to everyone through the insurance companies.

Every hospital administrator ever "we charge so much to make up for all of the people who don't have insurance and can't pay"

Granted, they are fucking liars who pull in millions in salary and turn their hospitals into fucking luxury hotels, but at least Obamacare can potentially call them on their bullshit.

Falstaff · Dec 4, 2013

Open enrollment started today for us. I previously said our premiums may be going down but they actually stayed the same for the first time in 5 years.

Thanks Obama!

Numbers_sl · Dec 4, 2013

Politico reporting that enrolment has surged higher after website fixes.Source: Enrollment surge on HealthCare.gov - Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com

Hoss · Dec 4, 2013

Kreugen_sl said:
Every hospital administrator ever "we charge so much to make up for all of the people who don't have insurance and can't pay"

Granted, they are fucking liars who pull in millions in salary and turn their hospitals into fucking luxury hotels, but at least Obamacare can potentially call them on their bullshit.

I can't tell if you were trying to agree or disagree with what I said. Then I saw you refuted yourself with the second paragraph and decided it wasn't worth the effort to puzzle out.

I'm hearing only 1/3 of millennials are planning to sign up for obamacare. Is that going to fuck your theory, or is that fine going to be paid to the hospitals?

Agraza · Dec 4, 2013

Yea, an excellent counter to a theory is a rumor about events that have yet to take place.

Hoss · Dec 4, 2013

1. I wasn't countering a theory, I was asking what he thought it would mean if that's how it panned out.
2. Since when is a harvard study a rumor?Harvard poll: 57% of Millennials disapprove of Obamacare

Vaclav · Dec 4, 2013

A poll from nearly a month ago when the website was still FUBAR? It's a different ball of wax now than "Oct 30 to Nov 11"

It's quite likely with a fixed website the poll numbers are different to some degree now.

Lendarios · Dec 4, 2013

I don't think there is a shortage of doctors in the USA, what exists is a shortage of training money. Every year thousands, yes thousands, of foreign medical graduates are not able to get a residency spot because it is a very crowded field, and there is lots of discrimination against foreign doctors. Since early 2000, the number of PG-1 positions, (first year of residency) has been less than the number of people applying for it. The money for the positions is provided by medicare, at it runs around a total of $10 Billion a year.

Ishad · Dec 4, 2013

lendarios_sl said:
I don't think there is a shortage of doctors in the USA, what exists is a shortage of training money. Every year thousands, yes thousands, of foreign medical graduates are not able to get a residency spot because it is a very crowded field, and there is lots of discrimination against foreign doctors. Since early 2000, the number of PG-1 positions, (first year of residency) has been less than the number of people applying for it. The money for the positions is provided by medicare, at it runs around a total of $10 Billion a year.

34,000 applicants submitted rank lists for 29,000 slots according to the nrmp match data for 2013. Only 28,000 positions were filled because some programs are ass.

We have other problems when fucking dermatology is the single most competitive field.

Cad · Dec 4, 2013

lendarios_sl said:
I don't think there is a shortage of doctors in the USA, what exists is a shortage of training money. Every year thousands, yes thousands, of foreign medical graduates are not able to get a residency spot because it is a very crowded field, and there is lots of discrimination against foreign doctors. Since early 2000, the number of PG-1 positions, (first year of residency) has been less than the number of people applying for it. The money for the positions is provided by medicare, at it runs around a total of $10 Billion a year.

You're right the US Govt. should totally pay to train FMG's so they can go back to their own country afterwards. Perhaps the FMG's should train in their own country?

And the point remains that medical schools (US medical schools) aren't graduating enough people to take the residency positions. FMG's fill the gaps. Although according to Ishad apparently there are paid training positions so bad even FMG's don't want them... speaks to the elitism of doctors I guess.

Hoss · Dec 4, 2013

Vaclav_sl said:
A poll from nearly a month ago when the website was still FUBAR? It's a different ball of wax now than "Oct 30 to Nov 11"

It's quite likely with a fixed website the poll numbers are different to some degree now.

And? I don't see how that has any effect on the question I asked. People are acting like this would torpedo the entire thing, and i just don't see it unless the fine isn't being used to pay for indigent care.

Lendarios · Dec 4, 2013

Ishad_sl said:
34,000 applicants submitted rank lists for 29,000 slots according to the nrmp match data for 2013. Only 28,000 positions were filled because some programs are ass.

We have other problems when fucking dermatology is the single most competitive field.

You are incorrect on those numbers.
Look at

http://www.ecfmg.org/echo/imgs-2013-match.pdf

In 2013, The Match experienced record high numbers for both first-year positions offered and total active applicants - 26,392 and 34,355 respectively. Of the 5,095 U.S. citizen IMGs who participated in this Match, 2,706 (53.1%) were matched to first -
year positions ( PGY-1); this was the tenth consecutive year that the number of U.S. IMGs matching to first -year positions increased. Of the 7,568 non - U.S. citizen IMG participants, 3,601 ( 47.6 %) obtained first - year positions; this marked the second consecutive year that number increased

That means that 4 thousand people were left out of a job this year. Also to Cad, the irony and idiocy of what you are saying is that a Foreign graduate Doctor does not need to go thru the residency program in order to practice in the country of origin. Because as the name indicates, they have already graduated. Almost all IMG are looking to settle in the USA, or are simply US citizens that had to go abroad due to not been able to get into an US med school.

Lendarios · Dec 4, 2013

Cad_sl said:
You're right the US Govt. should totally pay to train FMG's so they can go back to their own country afterwards. Perhaps the FMG's should train in their own country?

And the point remains that medical schools (US medical schools) aren't graduating enough people to take the residency positions. FMG's fill the gaps. Although according to Ishad apparently there are paid training positions so bad even FMG's don't want them... speaks to the elitism of doctors I guess.

Get your data from the source. All Pg1 positions have been filled every year for the last decade.

Cad · Dec 4, 2013

lendarios_sl said:
Get your data from the source. All Pg1 positions have been filled every year for the last decade.

Just because they matched doesn't mean they took the position.

Vaclav · Dec 4, 2013

Hoss_sl said:
And? I don't see how that has any effect on the question I asked. People are acting like this would torpedo the entire thing, and i just don't see it unless the fine isn't being used to pay for indigent care.

I was just refuting the value of that poll - no opinion really on the rest - I don't like to get into prognostication, I don't claim to be Nostrodamus.

fanaskin · Dec 4, 2013

Vaclav_sl said:
A poll from nearly a month ago when the website was still FUBAR? It's a different ball of wax now than "Oct 30 to Nov 11"

It's quite likely with a fixed website the poll numbers are different to some degree now.

why do you assume the "website" is the #1 reason millennials wouldn't like the bill? the biggest reason millennials wouldn't like it is because if they have any aspirations of living above supplement eligible levels of income they are going to have to pay for baby boomers and this is while employment and money are still tight that has nothing to do with the website functionality.

from the article

Perhaps more troubling for Obama, the poll showed 40% of young Americans believe Obamacare will bring worse care, 51% believe it will bring higher costs and 57% said they disapprove of the president's signature law.

Vaclav · Dec 4, 2013

I'm not assuming anything about how much it would adjust the poll, just that it would be "different to some degree now".

A month more time and the major crisis fixed no doubt bumped it by at least 1% I'll say with complete confidence, might be substantial even - but SOME shift is a given. And with it only being 57% that disliked it before, that's only 8% to reach a "more like it" tipping point.

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