Health Care Thread

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TheBeagle

TheBeagle

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Supremacy Clause has regularly over ruled the 10th since the 30's. Pussy fucking Democrats dropped the ball by keeping Medicaid as an integral part of the mix. It's a fucking abortion that allows states to pick and choose. There are plenty of examples of Federal mandates trumping crazy ass states rights bullshit, but Medicaid was written 40 years ago to accommodate the states and as long as the ACA is propped up by that piece of shit then it will continue to be a misshapen turd. Welcome to 'Murica.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Vaclav_sl said:
If anything else broke the bill of rights why exactly do the Justices feel they aren't? Also why are you more of a Constitutional expert than them to question their judgment?

Ignoring the 10th like that would be cut and dry even to a layman without room for Judicial opinion unlike every other disputed point.
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While I agree with you (imagine that) about the 10th, when you take the long view it doesn't matter. Opinions vary from decade to decade (and century to century) with the general populous, and the Supremes. What we find to be the "Absolute Truth" changes as we evolve / devolve and absorb the latest hit parade.

Slavery was considered to be the natural state of life for many human beings for most of humankind's history, and popular opinion didn't disagree. The brightest minds of the ages affirmed slavery as the natural state of being for many humans and again, popular opinion didn't disagree.

Now we find popular opinion of the belief that everyone should be coddled from cradle to grave, and nobody is responsible for their actions. We have swung to the extreme opposite opinion of most of our history but it is just another fleeting fad. The pendulum forever swings, and the majority, in the near future will again claim that slavery is the natural state of most beings.



Life changes and everything you believe will be proved to be a lie in the next century, but proved to be true the century after that. Your children will spit on you because you are a moron, even if you are hailed as the brightest mind of the age.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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That's all fine and well Grim1 - but the SC opinion of today is the law of the land - under all of their modern takes on 10th Amendment stuff it's cut and dry. Sure, things in a hundred years might be different, but when you're talking about "ignoring the Constitution" like some in this thread have, you're referencing TODAY not how it's going to be interpreted in the future. (And note of course that rarely when a past SC precedent is in place does it get bucked by the future SCs - almost all SC opinions are on new subjects or reaffirming an old one)

Considering the number of SC opinions that have been levied over the years and only a few dozen have been adjusted much less reversed, it's ludicrous to question it even with "the future" as a context. Not that "the future" is ever a valid context in a debate anyhow. In "the future" the entire species of humanity will die because of something, if we really were that nihilist about "the future" eventually turning bleak we really shouldn't do anything and just live in bunkers without trying to improve anything for the meantime.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Not disagreeing with you (again... Imagine that
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.... ). But my point was only that what you believe to be true now is only an opinion, and it will fade into irrelevance with time.

Universal truths are almost impossible to find, so everything you are arguing for will be an historical odditiy before you die.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Indeed - it's just rather pointless to state though - hell, as far as we know the Chinese ramp up into a superpower, we falter and the Constitution is a burned relic that some geriatric woman keeps in her hidden bunker with 6 other survivors that hid away so they won't have to speak Mandarin and nothing more in a hundred years.

Opinions and even nations change sometimes. The odds of it changing in any relevant timeframe before we both are dead or very close to dying are pretty much nil. (40-50 years is about the quickest reversals have happened in the SC to my knowledge)

So although change is possible, it's entirely silly to talk about without tangents like "How will space colonization be influenced by our laws?" and other stuff that sounds equally silly in a current context.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A131B120140204

2 million jobs... that aint' nothing in the grand scheme of things, and those two million people don't matter to anyone. Let them suffer....

Life is so good under ObamaCare. We are all so happy and fortunate to have such a wonderful god like Obama around to tell us how insignificant we all are.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Hours cut != jobs cut.

Not to mention from the article itself past the title:
Despite claims from Obamacare critics about the law's potential effects on hiring, CBO said the expected drop in work hours between 2017 and 2024 would result largely from worker decisions not to participate in the labor force, rather than from higher unemployment or the inability of part-time workers to find full-time hours.

"The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses' demand for labor," CBO said.
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So uhm yea, people deciding not to work because they were only working extra hours to qualify for health care that they don't have to anymore - that sounds fucking horrible to me. People should have to work 40 hr job for insurance even if they only care about having a 30 hr income.

So it's exactly the opposite of them suffering per your statement. It's them estimating people choosing to not work, the opposite of suffering. Such mindless hate.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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So people deciding not to work because it is cheaper to suck on the tit of government hand outs is a good thing. Got it.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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As I said, blind hate.

I don't know how many people you've employed, but I employed quite a few - and the number of people that were OK with working part time but wanted full time just for health care was pretty damn huge - and no, they're not "sucking on the tit of government". They're paying for their insurance, just aren't tied to working full time to get it at an affordable price.

Unsubsidized insurance for myself went from $250/mo employed to $800/mo with COBRA to just shy of $2k/mo without any employer connection before the ACA.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Lol... blind? As in you willfully being unable to pull your head out of ObamaCare's ass? Come on. The CBO just told you and the rest of you "blind" idiots that ObamaCare sucks... get over it and admit the truth.

But you can't do that can you? You are so invested in this fucked up nightmare that anything resembling accepting reality would turn your head into a Scanners nightmare.

ObamaCare sucks. And everyone who isn't acting like a fucking 17 year old school girl in love could see it coming years ago.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Right... I'm the blind one says the person saying that "jobs are being lost and people are going to suffer" when largely the figure is people that will opt to work less voluntarily.

I'll be the first to admit the ACA has some huge flaws in it - but manufactured nonsense like this that actually tries to quote reality backwards is ludicrous.
 
M

Medain_sl

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My premium went from $33 a week for crappy insurance that I never used to $95 a week for even crappier insurance that I refused to be bilked for. The only people who I meet who like this abortion of a law are the shitstains who always feel like their neighbor should get up and go to work so they can sit at home and sponge off them and then complain that they still arent getting enough of their neighbors sweat. The people who actually do the work that keeps this country moving are getting screwed HARD and that becomes clearer and clearer everyday that passes.

This law is going to collapse and in a spectacular fashion.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Medain_sl said:
My premium went from $33 a week for crappy insurance that I never used to $95 a week for even crappier insurance that I refused to be bilked for. The only people who I meet who like this abortion of a law are the shitstains who always feel like their neighbor should get up and go to work so they can sit at home and sponge off them and then complain that they still arent getting enough of their neighbors sweat. The people who actually do the work that keeps this country moving are getting screwed HARD and that becomes clearer and clearer everyday that passes.

This law is going to collapse and in a spectacular fashion.
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It's funny how shortsighted retards said the same thing about social security when it was new.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Obviously facts are beyond you Medain, I'm sure you policy isn't "crappier" under any logical definition if you actually posted comparisons of the policies I'm sure I could point out gains (and some losses I'm sure as well) with the new policy. Additionally I doubt you're quoting rates accurately, first of all only about 20% of people don't qualify for any subsidy and no state is hitting those rates for anyone even with a minimal subsidy.

And laws don't collapse - they get revised - the ACA needs quite a bit of revision and refinement, but that's hardly the Glenn Beck styled nonsense you imply with the doomcrying.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Gavinrad_sl said:
It's funny how shortsighted retards said the same thing about social security when it was new.
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And Medicare... (which is still more efficient dollar for dollar than "normal" healthcare under the ACA even though the ACA closed the gap a bit from almost 3:1 to just over 2:1)
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

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Medain_sl said:
The quotes are accurate. And the 18th amendment would like to meet you.
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Yes, there's a few examples of complete reversal - it's 1000:1 or so. The scope is completely different though since the 18th was creating violence and lawlessness.

And please quote your old policy name and tier plus new so I can compare please. I've seen close to a hundred comparisons where people made similar claims, a dozen or so here earlier, and yet to see one thAt didn't improve when it got more costly. Maybe in stuff they don't care about but better is still better.
 
Kreugen

Kreugen

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He said he doesn't use his insurance, so he's one of those people that will find out on the verge of death that they have some preventable thing that now costs a gazillion dollars to fix. Like the rest of America.

More than likely he'd have gone bankrupt with his old plan when this happens. Fucking nobody's premium tripled by going from "shit insurance" to an "equally shit" ACA plan. What a load of crap.
 
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