Health Care Thread

Vaclav

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Recently there's not been much to support. Ron Paul was the source of most recent agreements I've had with Republican stuff. Not Rand FYI.

And there's been plenty of things moderate Republicans have done I've given kudos for, McCain more than once for one.

But I do have a soft spot for most big D legislation recently, they've been hitting on a bunch of stuff that was high on my list to deal with - not ideal answers for any of them mind you - but attempts that have been at least MINOR improvements that with further tweaks might one day hit my ideals. (Scaled down wars, healthcare, etc)
 

Merlin_sl

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Recently there's not been much to support. Ron Paul was the source of most recent agreements I've had with Republican stuff. Not Rand FYI.

And there's been plenty of things moderate Republicans have done I've given kudos for, McCain more than once for one.

But I do have a soft spot for most big D legislation recently, they've been hitting on a bunch of stuff that was high on my list to deal with - not ideal answers for any of them mind you - but attempts that have been at least MINOR improvements that with further tweaks might one day hit my ideals. (Scaled down wars, healthcare, etc)
Healthcare....really? So it was supposed to cover EVERYONE and be cheaper but in fact it covers LESS people and cost more. In fact the CBO reported that it won't cover any more people then it did before the reform. How in the world can you support that? But I do agree with your point on "not much to support" The Republican party is sad, really sad since the presidential election.
 

Vaclav

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Costs were projected to go up 4% every year. This year factoring in the multiple years this year's rise covers ended up in the 2-2.5% per year range, went up but slower than before. (Cheaper was never stated, cheaper than without doing anything was - the latter has happened. I would prefer the former obviously though)

But main thing I think was great with it was removing PEC clauses because that one was why I was forced into disability because my insurance would cost me $25k a year almost half my income after taxes! I could work 40 hrs a week to make $600 more a month roughly about equivalent to working for $4/he in professional work or just coast on disability with 2/3 of the same. PEC changes make it around $5-6k cost making working a huge improvement.

I'm not sure how you feel about being government dependant but I hate it and that was the branch to try to get out of the pit. Had bad luck on securing a job to get out, but at least it's a real option now entirely because of the ACA.
 

Algiz

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Forty-seven percent (47%) of Republican voters say they have been personally hurt by Obamacare, compared to 19% of Democrats and 35% of voters not affiliated with either party. Most Democrats (58%) and a plurality (49%) of unaffiliateds say the law has had no impact on them. Republicans are also more likely than the others to say their insurance has changed as a result of the law.

Seventy-one percent (71%) of Democrats have a favorable opinion of the health care law. Eighty-five percent (85%) of Republicans and 66% of unaffiliateds view it unfavorably. Voters in President Obama's party are much stronger believers than the others that more federal government involvement in the marketplace is a better way to reduce health care costs.

Most voters who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement (62%) say they?ve been personally hurt by Obamacare. A majority of those not in the grassroots movement (54%) say the law has had no impact on them personally.

Voters who Strongly Disapprove of Obama?s job performance are far more likely than other voters to say they?ve been personally hurt by the law. Most voters who Strongly Approve of the president?s performance say the law hasn?t impacted them personally.
Think of how much higher that 33% would be if it wasn't for all those Obamabots defending Dear Leader's failed policies.THUMBS HIGH!
 

Vaclav

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Most voters who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement (62%) say they've been personally hurt by Obamacare. A majority of those not in the grassroots movement (54%) say the law has had no impact on them personally.
AKA Haters gonna hate.
 

Kreugen

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Wow that's an amazing statistic. Apparently, health insurance costs went up more more if you are a republican than if you are a democrat. Someone should look into that, because that sounds really unfair.

Or people are fucking lying / ignorant. Maybe.

I wonder how many people polled even know how much of their salary goes to insurance and how much it changes each year.
 

Wingz

Being Poor Sucks.
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Wow that's an amazing statistic. Apparently, health insurance costs went up more more if you are a republican than if you are a democrat. Someone should look into that, because that sounds really unfair.

Or people are fucking lying / ignorant. Maybe.

I wonder how many people polled even know how much of their salary goes to insurance and how much it changes each year.
Maybe because the "rich" republicans could actually afford the what are now substandard healthcare plans and got cancelled instead of living off medicare / medicaid.
 

Vaclav

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Wingz: If you can provide evidence of a policy that got worse, I'd love to see it - asked for examples lots of times have yet to see a before and after that's equal or worse overall - often they're identical in 80-95% of items and then a few items that are worse and a few that are the better. By and far policies are practically identical before and in fact I have yet to see one that has more negative dings than positive things added.

You know plus that entire "policies can't be cancelled on you because you hit a coverage cap" and "no preexisting conditions" and "college kids can stay on their parents plans til 26" things that factually make EVERY SINGLE POLICY THAT IS LEGAL IN THE US BETTER.
 

Wingz

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Being cancelled and having to buy a more expensive policy that covers items you don't need is better now huh (yay pregnancy as a man?)

I had a Blue cross / Blue shield through work. Got a cancellation notice around mid november as it didn't meet the new guidelines laid forth by the ACHA but was offered a different plan that cost more per month, about 40 bucks per month, may not seem like much but it adds up over a year and seems to cover what I did before, to put it in the obamacare terms, it would be about a bronze plan. I'm not a disaster only kinda guy.
 

Wingz

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Wingz: If you can provide evidence of a policy that got worse, I'd love to see it - asked for examples lots of times have yet to see a before and after that's equal or worse overall - often they're identical in 80-95% of items and then a few items that are worse and a few that are the better. By and far policies are practically identical before and in fact I have yet to see one that has more negative dings than positive things added.

You know plus that entire "policies can't be cancelled on you because you hit a coverage cap" and "no preexisting conditions" and "college kids can stay on their parents plans til 26" things thatfactually make EVERY SINGLE POLICY THAT IS LEGAL IN THE US BETTER.
If they're so great why aren't more people signing up for them? Do you understand what the deductibles are for these new and improved plans? A lot higher than the old plans, smaller networks mean less doctors and heck I can't blame them. I am around chicago and some doctors up here stopped seeing medicare patients because of the payback..a procedure costs 100 dollars to do and govt only pays 30, guess they doctor gets to eat the cost normally, sure they can bill the patient but good luck getting that cost back. Say you have 30 doctors in a network where this year they have 100 patients but then 200 next year..those networks aren't getting bigger, the lines just get longer which means less time with your doctor as they have to prioritize their time for patient care, one of the most common complaints from patents are that they feel their doctor doesn't listen to what they have to say, can you imagine the reality with double the patients on these small networks?
 

Asshat wormie

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If they're so great why aren't more people signing up for them? Do you understand what the deductibles are for these new and improved plans? A lot higher than the old plans, smaller networks mean less doctors and heck I can't blame them. I am around chicago and some doctors up here stopped seeing medicare patients because of the payback..a procedure costs 100 dollars to do and govt only pays 30, guess they doctor gets to eat the cost normally, sure they can bill the patient but good luck getting that cost back. Say you have 30 doctors in a network where this year they have 100 patients but then 200 next year..those networks aren't getting bigger, the lines just get longer which means less time with your doctor as they have to prioritize their time for patient care, one of the most common complaints from patents are that they feel their doctor doesn't listen to what they have to say, can you imagine the reality with double the patients on these small networks?
So doctors not accepting medicare is somehow affecting private insurance plans? Interesting.
 

Vaclav

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Being cancelled and having to buy a more expensive policy that covers items you don't need is better now huh (yay pregnancy as a man?)

I had a Blue cross / Blue shield through work. Got a cancellation notice around mid november as it didn't meet the new guidelines laid forth by the ACHA but was offered a different plan that cost more per month, about 40 bucks per month, may not seem like much but it adds up over a year and seems to cover what I did before, to put it in the obamacare terms, it would be about a bronze plan. I'm not a disaster only kinda guy.
Rates were projected to go up on average about $20/mo (4%/yr, the average policy was around $500 a month) each year for the past 4 years that the hold just got lifted on without the ACA - so what you're saying is that the ACA saved you $40 versus what was projected - congratulations the ACA saved you money and yet you're whining about it - FoxNEWS would be proud to have you as a guest.

Additionally there is no such thing as "about a Bronze plan" if it's a new plan - any new plans offered have to have the new nomenclature tied to them - so either you're fibbing or you're not reading your policy description at all to just throw out randomness. (And note, most old ones did as well - although I forget if it's required or not - some new plan rules are required to go into old ones and some aren't - I forget about the metallic category thing)
 

Wingz

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So doctors not accepting medicare is somehow affecting private insurance plans? Interesting.
That was an example of government involvement in the health care practice. If less are currently accepting of medicare now because of the paybacks, I believe this is why the networks are so small for the exchanges and some private networks in general same deal different name.

A practical example of them not accepting medicare that "is somehow affecting private insurance plans" is the cost of emergency care visits. If a doctor doesn't accept medicare patients anymore where do most of them turn? The ER because they can't refuse, women with "chest pains" get a pregnancy test for example and that has a cost to it believe it or not. If they are getting a pittance from medicare payouts, then hospitals will need to recoup their costs from somewhere and the costs on the people that do pay go up, and now that the people that do pay HAVE to by law have healthcare insurance(where as before they could pay out of pocket if necessary), they can leverage those costs more against the people that do pay with health insurance companies thus causing the costs of the premium to go up next cycle. The deductables are higher in most cases now so the people that do pay have a more out of pocket cost and a higher premium as well.

Yay better!
 

Vaclav

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If they're so great why aren't more people signing up for them? Do you understand what the deductibles are for these new and improved plans? A lot higher than the old plans, smaller networks mean less doctors and heck I can't blame them. I am around chicago and some doctors up here stopped seeing medicare patients because of the payback..a procedure costs 100 dollars to do and govt only pays 30, guess they doctor gets to eat the cost normally, sure they can bill the patient but good luck getting that cost back. Say you have 30 doctors in a network where this year they have 100 patients but then 200 next year..those networks aren't getting bigger, the lines just get longer which means less time with your doctor as they have to prioritize their time for patient care, one of the most common complaints from patents are that they feel their doctor doesn't listen to what they have to say, can you imagine the reality with double the patients on these small networks?
1) People are signing up for them - unless you're not counting millions of people - which you apparently REALLY want to.
2) On deductibles, absolutely - and coverage caps are a much more important thing which are ridiculously higher - top end is when insurance really matters, having a slightly higher deductible is no big deal especially considering how drastically better coverage overall is. [Additionally deductibles are something you can itemize on your taxes - so really at the end of the day the cost is negligible]
3) You're talking about Medicaid not Medicare with those types of figures -As Medicaid Fees Push Doctors Out, Chicago Patients Find Fewer Choices - New York Times- Medicaid is administered by the local government and some are good and some are terrible. Medicare pays better than most private insurance due to the easier time with filing since Medicare doesn't play games. (about 80-85% of private insurance rates - but they accept almost every claim that fits the criteria so rarely needs refilings - average private insurance policy takes 1-1.5 hrs of front office work before it's accepted because they fight so many - so you end up having to pay $15-20 on average to get the reimbursement from private insurance vs. about 10-15 min of work for Medicare generally making Medicare MORE profitable - there are some exceptions though since some of the care standards for specialties do have minimum visit times and such that can turn some off to Medicare though - but rarely do they refuse them completely [often they'll limit it to X Medicare patients on their patient list so they have Y amount of consistent money that they know they'll see in 4-6 weeks versus having to wait for up to 12 months for a private insurer to reimburse them])
4) On network size - they have been shrinking for ages - the insurance conglomerates wanted HMOs to be the big new thing a few years ago, when people didn't take them by and far they went back to normal PPO plans mostly and now they're trying to push back to something that's a hybrid. To anyone who understands the insurance industry they knew this was coming - the ACA did nothing to prevent it, but also did nothing to cause it either.
5) The ACA actually puts in place minimum visit times for many different codes - so your final assertion is something the ACA prevents - Medicare visit times are still a bit stricter, but private insurance has a number in the ACA as well as a rule in there that they must follow any guidelines the AMA puts forth for visit times. (Which to my knowledge the AMA hasn't added anything beyond the ACAs - but still, it's allowed)

Again, FOXNews would be proud, you've bought alot of horseshit line and sinker. You don't even seem to understand Medicaid isn't Medicare like a true FOX soldier. And honestly Medicaid shouldn't be that great, it should be restrictive as it's something that is offered for FREE. (Or next year I believe - for super low cost for those that want to buy into it for many states)
 

Wingz

Being Poor Sucks.
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Rates were projected to go up on average about $20/mo (4%/yr, the average policy was around $500 a month) each year for the past 4 years that the hold just got lifted on without the ACA - so what you're saying is that the ACA saved you $40 versus what was projected - congratulations the ACA saved you money and yet you're whining about it - FoxNEWS would be proud to have you as a guest.

Additionally there is no such thing as "about a Bronze plan" if it's a new plan - any new plans offered have to have the new nomenclature tied to them - so either you're fibbing or you're not reading your policy description at all to just throw out randomness. (And note, most old ones did as well - although I forget if it's required or not - some new plan rules are required to go into old ones and some aren't - I forget about the metallic category thing)

Health Plan Information | HealthCare.gov

As far as your comments about rates. Too bad your logic doesn't equate to other things. Got a cable plan price locked in? Get it canceled and pay more for a new one with all kinds of channels you don't want/need while they tell you the prices were projected to go up anyway.

EDIT ADD: I do understand the difference in medicare and medicaid. I wasn't talking about local, federal. Hopefully 2013 stuff isn't too old for this discussion.

WSJ: Doctors turn away Medicare patients | The Advisory Board Daily Briefing

Doctors turning away from Medicare patients - Atlanta Business Chronicle

If you want to believe it's a good thing, don't let my bad vibes get in your way. Keep the good feelen train going.
 

Vaclav

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Wingz: Find me a healthcare insurer that promised a locked in rate, please. You're comparing apples (an industry that promises to lock a rate) to oranges. (one that does not)
My electric rate goes up all the time as well - they never promised me a fixed rate though - not about to call them screaming they should be like the cable company. (Although it is nice that the secondary supplier I just started with WILL be locking for 24 months - but that's a new thing that's never been available [or even legal in Maryland] the entire time I've been paying for my own housing)

And what's the point of the gishgallop link there? I see lots of plans of all different tiers in the link, if you're implying yours is on the list a name of the plan and provider would be nice. (and for sake of argument a link/name to your previous plan for comparison purposes)
 

Asshat wormie

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That was an example of government involvement in the health care practice. If less are currently accepting of medicare now because of the paybacks, I believe this is why the networks are so small for the exchanges and some private networks in general same deal different name.

A practical example of them not accepting medicare that "is somehow affecting private insurance plans" is the cost of emergency care visits. If a doctor doesn't accept medicare patients anymore where do most of them turn? The ER because they can't refuse, women with "chest pains" get a pregnancy test for example and that has a cost to it believe it or not. If they are getting a pittance from medicare payouts, then hospitals will need to recoup their costs from somewhere and the costs on the people that do pay go up, and now that the people that do pay HAVE to by law have healthcare insurance(where as before they could pay out of pocket if necessary), they can leverage those costs more against the people that do pay with health insurance companies thus causing the costs of the premium to go up next cycle. The deductables are higher in most cases now so the people that do pay have a more out of pocket cost and a higher premium as well.

Yay better!
Yeah you are right. I remember the glory days before Obamacare. The people who no one wanted to see didnt go to the ER and we never had to pay the costs of those people through increased premiums. Those people just curled up in the corner and died and everyone was happy. Where did the good times go
frown.png
.
 

fanaskin

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The insurers knew the market volatility was coming, so they took advantage of it and introduced a slew of tiered network packages into the exchanges. If you ask the question "who is at fault?", the lib will say the company for being greedy, the conserv will say the government for interfering with the market and causing volatility, in the end it took both.

because when government and big business team up it's bad news for people usually.
 

Vaclav

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The insurers knew the market volatility was coming, so they took advantage of it, now who is at fault, the lib will say the company for being greedy, the conserv will say the government for interfering with the market. in the end it took both.
What market volatility? That rates went up? (less than projected)

No one who even knows the market considers that even worth noting because it's the status quo that rates go up every year when they're allowed to.