Health Care Thread

forcing the person out who fucked it up is a good start.

wormie_sl said:

And?

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Please read the entire 77 page document front to back. There will be a quiz and some great talking points from Fanaskin later today.

bleedat_sl said:

forcing the person out who fucked it up is a good start.

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Which person who fucked what up?

bleedat_sl said:

forcing the person out who fucked it up is a good start.

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So you'll stop posting soon?

khalid_sl said:

What are you majoring in at college?

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Wasn't it computer science? Guy is so unflexable in his thinking he'll be pretty terrible at it.

Karloff_sl said:

So you'll stop posting soon?

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I fucked up ACA?

The ACA seems to be working better than the previous system so far. How would you say it's fucked up exactly?

I'm sure Kathleen Sebelius was forced out because of the wonderfulness of obamacare. Makes sense that you force out the face of the franchise if all is going well.

But to answer your question. The biggest issue is the law forces healthy young people to pay excessive rates for a level of insurance they do not need in order to fund the costs of coverage for older sicker people. Ok great. And we'll fine those that don't enroll. Oh wait, the fines are pointless and people still wont enroll.

Most healthy young people qualify for pretty substantial savings with tax subsidies since they generally don't make a lot of money (and if they do, they're probably at a job that offers group insurance anyway). I don't have any chronic health problems and am very healthy overall. That didn't stop me from racking up over $20,000 in doctor bills in my 20's when I had unexpected things happen like breaking bones and having my tonsils removed. I can safely say the same thing for probably every healthy friend I have. Myself and several of my friends were poor and had we not had health insurance, would've been bankrupted if we got a $15,000 bill.

It's illegal to drive in California and many other states without car insurance and I don't know anyone who thinks that's bad other than scrubs that don't want to pay for it. Why didn't the Republicans throw a huge hissy fit when those laws were passed if requiring people to insure themselves is the real issue?

bleedat_sl said:

I'm sure Kathleen Sebelius was forced out because of the wonderfulness of obamacare. Makes sense that you force out the face of the franchise if all is going well.

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Protip: Most cabinet people try to retire 1-2 years before an administration change. Only Secretary of the Treasury tends to stay on board, the rest switch out for people that would be comfortable working under either party shortly before the switch.

Odds are she was planning to leave around now, and are just promoting it that way to appeal to knuckle draggers like you. So you feel your whining accomplished something.

Exactly my point, 6 months sooner for a planned departure is trivial.

Disp_sl said:

The ACA seems to be working better than the previous system so far. How would you say it's fucked up exactly?

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lol, thats why even democrats are running full speed away from Obamacare while preparing for the midterm campaigns? Because its so successful? Ok, gotcha.

Disp_sl said:

The ACA seems to be working better than the previous system so far. How would you say it's fucked up exactly?

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This is not a well founded statement. ACA has yet to even be fully implemented, and the long term effects are of more consequence. I have discussed some of these, including decline of middle class and shortage of physicians.

Disp_sl said:

Most healthy young people qualify for pretty substantial savings with tax subsidies since they generally don't make a lot of money ... I don't have any chronic health problems and am very healthy overall. That didn't stop me from racking up over $20,000 in doctor bills in my 20's

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Then you were a fool. You could have purchased a policy for $125 / mo or less that would cover all of those things with a deductible/yearly-out-of-pocket max of $1500. I know this, because I did (in 2011). Now, such coverage under the same circumstances is $349/mo with higher out-of-pocket max, without subsidy.
**edit: that is Ohio pricing. I did neglect to consider that you might live in a market such as NY where prices were also quite high before.

You might not care due to the subsidy - but do you really see no long term consquences of making people (young/healthy), who were not previously, entirely dependent on government handouts?

I have never said the old system did not need reform. Rather, I say that moving towards more centralized control with ACA is the wrong reform.

frqkjt_sl said:

Then you were a fool. You could have purchased a policy for $125 / mo or less that would cover all of those things with a deductible/yearly-out-of-pocket max of $1500. I know this, because I did (in 2011). Now, such coverage under the same circumstances is $349/mo with higher out-of-pocket max, without subsidy.

You might not care due to the subsidy - but do you really see no long term consquences of making people (young/healthy), who were not previously, entirely dependent on government handouts? (

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If you paid even the slightest bit of attention I was commenting on young people now being "forced" to purchase insurance, and how even young and healthy people have shit happen to them. I had insurance, and have for all but about 9 months of my life when I first moved out from my parents place. I'm saying the billed amount was $20,000. If I had no insurance I would've been fucked.

frqkjt_sl said:

This is not a well founded statement. ACA has yet to even be fully implemented, and the long term effects are of more consequence. I have discussed some of these, including decline of middle class and shortage of physicians.

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So he's not allowed to predict the future, but you are? Excuse me?

There's projections that go both ways - and generally those with more expertise trend towards the positive side. (And have thusfar been more correct....)

Then you were a fool. You could have purchased a policy for $125 / mo or less that would cover all of those things with a deductible/yearly-out-of-pocket max of $1500. I know this, because I did (in 2011). Now, such coverage under the same circumstances is $349/mo with higher out-of-pocket max, without subsidy.

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In 9 states out of 50 that was true for non-catastrophic plans, if you count catastrophic it was 12. 38 out of 50 states what you just said was blatantly false for. Additionally note that many of those plans whether they listed a cutoff or not often were located in states where they were allowed to drop you from any policy at any time for any reason by refunding the current calender year worth of premiums back to the subscriber. (And sometimes not even that, but I think most of them required a refund in that range)

So not exactly apples to apples with most people.

Hell, for me, thanks to PEC the cheapest policy available to me in 2005 was $2.2k A MONTH (the coverage was pretty solid, but still $2.2k was the CHEAP policy, and my PEC is pretty damn minor besides for infants [lots of hand surgeries required - and no, my policy wouldn't cover a kid back then]) even when I was healthy without the PEC listed by my insurance the cheapest available with my perfect health previous in the state of Maryland as an individual policy holder? $375/mo for one that was absolute shitty coverage (far sub-Bronze tier for modern scales) and the Bronze+ plan that actually looked marginally usable? $550/mo.

Of course we've had laws on the books here for ages to prevent insurance companies finking out on clients though - so they pad their risk by overcharging intentionally.