Health Care Thread

frqkjt_sl

shitlord
199
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If you paid even the slightest bit of attention I was commenting on young people now being "forced" to purchase insurance, and how even young and healthy people have shit happen to them. I had insurance, and have for all but about 9 months of my life when I first moved out from my parents place. I'm saying the billed amount was $20,000. If I had no insurance I would've been fucked.
I did skim the more recent posts. Then we agree here.

Young/healthy need insurance, yes. No one in the USA should be without health insurance, ever, unless it is impossible to get. It comes right after air, water, food, shelter. I don't even mind forcing people to buy it or pay a fine. It's a legit. public interest for everyone to have it, just like car insurance, and so many in their 20's are completely oblivious to the risk and refuse to buy it, while paying $80/mo for a phone. You tell them a simple fall could lead to financial ruin, and they reply 'I'll be careful." Or, 'how will you be careful to not need an appendectomy?' - reply: silence/insult/gibberish.

(One reason I feel like insurance co's will feel some stress over profits going into 2015 - the penalty is not yet servere enough to convince the morons that they really should buy health insurance.)
 

frqkjt_sl

shitlord
199
0
1) So he's not allowed to predict the future, but you are? Excuse me?

2)In 9 states out of 50 that was true for non-catastrophic plans, if you count catastrophic it was 12. 38 out of 50 states what you just said was blatantly false for. Additionally note that many of those plans whether they listed a cutoff or not often were located in states where they were allowed to drop you from any policy at any time for any reason by refunding the current calender year worth of premiums back to the subscriber.

Hell, for me, thanks to PEC the cheapest policy available to me in 2005 was $2.2k A MONTH (the coverage was pretty solid, but still $2.2k was the CHEAP policy, and my PEC is pretty damn minor besides for infants [lots of hand surgeries required - and no, my policy wouldn't cover a kid back then]) even when I was healthy without the PEC listed by my insurance the cheapest available with my perfect health previous in the state of Maryland as an individual policy holder? $375/mo for one that was absolute shitty coverage (far sub-Bronze tier for modern scales) and the Bronze+ plan that actually looked marginally usable? $550/mo.

Of course we've had laws on the books here for ages to prevent insurance companies finking out on clients though - so they pad their risk by overcharging intentionally.
1)He was not making a prediction about the future. He was making a statement about performance of ACA to date. Can you not read? He said "so far." I replied that we should not judge the worth of the ACA on performance 'so far' but rather on the long term, that is, 'later'. It seems every post I have to explain very basic things to you. It's getting tedious.

2)The topic was insurance for healthy people in their 20's, not those with any pre-existing conditions. Pre-ACA, with any pre-existing condition you were pretty well fucked (a complex problem caused by skyrocketing costs of healthcare relative to stagnant income). He mentioned broken bones and tonsils - things covered by any decent policy available to healthy 20's pre-ACA, such as mine, which I initially purchased for $125ish in 2011, up to $155ish in 2014. (Note: I bought the second most expensive policy available in my area, at the time.)
*I acknowledged that maybe this was not true if he lived in a high cost of living market. My state has a relatively low cost of living, considering the population density.

When you priced the policy without PEC listed, were you in your 20's? If not, your counterexample is not valid.

As for other problems, like getting dropped at any time - getting rid of such problems is a benefit of the ACA, I agree. Bad analogy: swat a fly on wall with hammer - small problem, fly, is gone. Now, though, bigger problem: hole in wall.
(In my state, insurance co could only cancel a policy mid-contract by exiting the market in the entire state.)
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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I was 28-31 for those two quotes. 32 was when my PEC was reported.

And for Ohio that was not their only exit clause until 2007. Yes, for two years before the ACA what you're saying was correct however.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Who is? How are they running away? How is it not successful?

Back your bullshit up. You fana and bleedat are fucking MASTERS of theOne-Line-Talking-Point-Run-Awayschtick. You should really grow a pair.
On Monday night, South Carolina?s Elizabeth Colbert Busch, a favorite of the Democratic left, couldn't get away from the law fast enough, calling Obamacare ?extremely problematic? ? a quote that got wide play from GOP groups like the National Republican Senatorial Committee.

Sen. Max Baucus warned that there could be a ?train wreck? if the Obamacare outreach doesn?t improve ? and he helped give birth to the law in the Senate.
Democrats fret over Obamacare as 2014 looms - David Nather and Darren Samuelsohn - POLITICO.com
Video: Obamacare still poses problems for President, Dems (POLITICO Roundtable) - POLITICO.com

While Wasserman Schultz defiantly claims all Democrats will proudly run on health care in 2014 and 2016, endangered Democratic Sen. Kay Hagan of North Carolina was caught on camera just last week literally running away from a journalist who dared to ask her about the 24 times she falsely promised that if you liked your plan, you could keep it under Obama.

It's not just Hagan; every vulnerable Senate Democrat who rammed Obamacare down America's throat is now running for the hills. When the White House now talks about the "Get Covered" campaign, it's not about ordinary Americans getting health care. It's about covering the backsides of the Obama water-carriers who may very well lose their jobs. They're not just eating their words. They're choking on Obamacare's massive, inevitable, job-killing, life-threatening failures.
Democrats Eating Their Own Words

This stuff isn't hard to find. If I was bored I would post a dozen more but its not worth my effort. Pretending Obamacare is going well is just comedy at this point. I am literally laughing out loud at you.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Pretending the ACA is going incredibly awful is comedy as well.

Realistically it's just doing mediocre a handful of really good things, a handful of bad things (less bad than good, but being PEC I'm biased), and tons that really didn't change things to any noteworthy degree.

Hell, most of your articles there say as much that they're shying away because it's not a slam dunk, not because it's terrible.

When you're promoting your record you want slam dunks, not stuff that won't play well with some of your constituents. Even if the reason why it won't is based on fiction.

Logic needs to be a greater part of your mental diet, bro.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Pretending the ACA is going incredibly awful is comedy as well.

Realistically it's just doing mediocre a handful of really good things, a handful of bad things (less bad than good, but being PEC I'm biased), and tons that really didn't change things to any noteworthy degree.

Hell, most of your articles there say as much that they're shying away because it's not a slam dunk, not because it's terrible.

When you're promoting your record you want slam dunks, not stuff that won't play well with some of your constituents. Even if the reason why it won't is based on fiction.

Logic needs to be a greater part of your mental diet, bro.
There is nothing going well with Obamacare. Its not affordable, the majority of people signing up are receiving the subsidies to help them cover their premiums so its not able to pay for itself, the amount of people that have signed up are not yet exceeding the amount who were already dropped by their insurance companies, its costing us, the taxpayers out the ass and its still not covering the uninsured. What about Obamacare can be labeled a success? We already had medicare, why didn't we just expand that to cover the uninsured instead of gutting the entire thing and starting over? Its a giant clusterfuck with no end in sight.
 

Disp_sl

shitlord
1,544
1
Merlin, the number of people who were "dropped" by their insurance is probably incredibly low. Most people were transitioned into a compliant plan with the same insurance company. The only reason an insurance company would have to drop someone when the ACA went live, and not just enroll them in a new compliant plan, is if they were getting out of the healthcare industry altogether.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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We already had medicare, why didn't we just expand that to cover the uninsured instead of gutting the entire thing and starting over? Its a giant clusterfuck with no end in sight.
We tried that. But Republicans fanatically resisted it. I mean, you are aware that medicare is a single payer system right? Basically what the Democrats wanted from the beginning?

Or are you not?
 

frqkjt_sl

shitlord
199
0
There is nothing going well with Obamacare.
My individual policy cannot be revoked as long as I pay the monthly premium, and there is no lifetime maximum coverage. People who could not get individual insurance before, esp. due to pre-existing conditions, now have access. This and more, due to ACA.

If you're going to tackle a complex problem, you must attempt to be more precise. Since you said 'nothing is going well' I need only one counter-example of something going well to refute you.

I do not support ACA.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Right frqkjt: (PS I hate typing out your gibberish name)

It definitely would've been better as an entire series of mini bills instead of one monster one - unfortunately with the current political atmosphere being so antagonistic with everything being filibustered, we'd probably have two or three minibills passed which cover 5-10% of what the ACA does. (Although likely better individually assuming people didn't sneak dozens of riders on each - a risk with additional bills as well)

I really wish we had a less polarized political atmosphere where that would've been plausible. It would've been great to see a "Medical Cost Funding Bill", "Preexisting Clause Elimination Bill", "Insurance Subsidy Bill", ad nauseum all done individually piece by piece so that they were each done right with tons of debate on each individual item - unfortunately it's not politically feasible as things stand right now. [And although the Republicans are the worst half when it comes to polarization right now, the Democrats are only marginally better (95%+ lockstep with the party line for Republicans, 80-85% for Democrats - realistically it should be 10-15% that always vote with their party with the rest of the time supporting the views of their constituency]
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
My individual policy cannot be revoked as long as I pay the monthly premium, and there is no lifetime maximum coverage. People who could not get individual insurance before, esp. due to pre-existing conditions, now have access. This and more, due to ACA.

If you're going to tackle a complex problem, you must attempt to be more precise. Since you said 'nothing is going well' I need only one counter-example of something going well to refute you.

I do not support ACA.
You point out this incredibly low percentage of people that we assume are now benefiting. How many people with pre-existing conditions that are now covered by Obamacare exist? 100? Maybe 500? We don't know of course but seriously, We tear apart an entire system benefiting hundreds of millions of people to make sure 500 people get covered? Isn't there a more efficient way to handle that?

@Araysar, I was referring to just covering the people who did not have insurance, not changing the entire system to single-payer, which has its own faults. Just ask Europeans. From what I have researched their system sucks balls.
 

Disp_sl

shitlord
1,544
1
Yes Merlin, there are only 100-500 people in the United States that have diabetes, cancer, depression, high blood pressure, or the dozens of other ailments that could get them declined for an individual plan in the past.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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@Araysar, I was referring to just covering the people who did not have insurance, not changing the entire system to single-payer, which has its own faults. Just ask Europeans. From what I have researched their system sucks balls.
jesus christ.

The medicare system is a single payer system already. unfuckingbelievable. how can you be this fucking ignorant? you castigate Democrats for not expanding medicare (a single payer system) while out of your other side of your mouth you bitch about how single payer system "sucks balls" because you did "research" on them

yeah, i bet you researched the european systems. did you research them as thoroughly as you researched medicare? where did you do your research? 20 minutes of reading Rush transcripts?

you should take a header into the deep end of an empty pool and rid us of your stupidity.
 

Karloff_sl

shitlord
907
1
There is nothing going well with Obamacare. Its not affordable, the majority of people signing up are receiving the subsidies to help them cover their premiums so its not able to pay for itself, the amount of people that have signed up are not yet exceeding the amount who were already dropped by their insurance companies, its costing us, the taxpayers out the ass and its still not covering the uninsured. What about Obamacare can be labeled a success? We already had medicare, why didn't we just expand that to cover the uninsured instead of gutting the entire thing and starting over? Its a giant clusterfuck with no end in sight.
Just to be sure, using taxpayer money to fund health insurance ... Bad.
Using taxpayer money to find Merlin's WIC and education ... Good.

God must love you .
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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You point out this incredibly low percentage of people that we assume are now benefiting. How many people with pre-existing conditions that are now covered by Obamacare exist? 100? Maybe 500? We don't know of course but seriously, We tear apart an entire system benefiting hundreds of millions of people to make sure 500 people get covered? Isn't there a more efficient way to handle that?

@Araysar, I was referring to just covering the people who did not have insurance, not changing the entire system to single-payer, which has its own faults. Just ask Europeans. From what I have researched their system sucks balls.
21% of Americans used to be influenced by a pre-existing condition clause - about 3% of those with individual policies, 10% with group policies that added cost to everyone in their group policy and 8% that didn't insure because of it. TONS of people were PEC'ed to some degree - it was not a rare thing in the slightest. [Some stuff as common as high blood pressure was PEC'ed a reasonable amount of the time...]

And on European healthcare being worse from your research, you must not have researched much - because it's cheaper, faster for anything other than specialized treatments that don't impact quality of life substantially - in exchange for higher quality treatment of such when they do come up (best knee transplants in the world are in the UK right now for example - but also the longest wait for them in the modern world as well - but even then it's about 60-70% longer than the average wait in the US, and tend to last the entire life of the subject versus needing to be replaced every 10-15 years in the US - so one longer wait versus up to 5-6 shorter waits if you have your first when you're young - and mind you paying for it 5-6 times too!), and guaranteed coverage even when money runs out in semi-UHC nations like Singapore that we'd be more likely to follow.

In fact to be honest, I highly doubt you "researched" the subject at all - I bet all you did was go to a few opinion pieces and just took what they said at face value with zero research at all. (Amongst other things because its not easy to truly research it from over here in the US without it being opinion pieces - I can't fairly call any of my opinion on it to be "research" because it's all opinion laced pieces I've read as well barring some raw numbers stuff which is highly subjective because nations are so drastically different from each other)
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
jesus christ.

The medicare system is a single payer system already. unfuckingbelievable. how can you be this fucking ignorant? you castigate Democrats for not expanding medicare (a single payer system) while out of your other side of your mouth you bitch about how single payer system "sucks balls" because you did "research" on them

yeah, i bet you researched the european systems. did you research them as thoroughly as you researched medicare? where did you do your research? 20 minutes of reading Rush transcripts?

you should take a header into the deep end of an empty pool and rid us of your stupidity.
Do you only read what you want to read that will reinforce your opinions? Yes Araysar, I am fully aware that medicare is fully government funded. And I'm pretty sure I stated that wasn't the issue. The issue was forcing everyone in the country onto a single payer system when most of us were happy with our health insurance as it was. We liked our doctors, hospitals, and while no one wants to pay a dime, for the most part it was affordable. So my statement was, if the goal was to insure the uninsured, then simply put them on medicare, or a single payer system and leave the rest of us the fuck alone. Is that really that difficult?
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Correspondent / Stock Pals CEO
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Merlin can't even do 5th grade math. I mean he seriously can't. He came here to ask us for help once.

I mean do you seriously see him reading studies on European healthcare and sagely weighing the pros and cons instead of reading Breitbart and hurr durring until he blacks out from lack of oxygen to the brain?