Health Care Thread

Picasso_sl said:

"I have to pay for my insurance and healthcare"

He obviously don't know shit about shit because he's busy working instead of freeloading! Proud repub earning 40k/yr and wishing the bottom 50% would get off their asses and do something.

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No I don't now about it because I'm ignorant about it. Like most things in life, I don't research it until it becomes relevant to me or I become interested in it academically. I don't qualify for any of the benefits, nor do I hold office. As for voting, it's never hit the top of my list so I've never qualified candidates based on their elder-care stances. I'm not debating, I'm simply recanting personal (or at least ones that I'm privy to) interactions with a broken system. I could care less what your stance is and calling me a 'proud repub' is far from the truth.

Dealing with ideals is ultimately irrelevant. Practicality wins 100% of the time. Practically, the ACA is broken. I could care less about it's merits or political intent. It just isn't working properly. Whether it's codified wrong, the bureaucracy fucked it up or the entire industry is broken beyond repair and needs more regulation is irrelevant, it's broken universally. Healthcare was broken before and it is still broken now.

As for medicare and SSI (social security income in a generalized sense, again pardon me I don't work for the SSA so I don't care to distinguish), it's simple math. Longer lives + more medical bills + increasing medical costs + boom in population + depletion of trust + reduction in economy + lower birth rates = it will be broken without changes. Of course 'not seeing a dime' is hyperbole. However, the payments do not properly keep pace with inflation and there seems to be no great hurry to correct a program which fundamentally depends on longevity of investment and not immediate income through taxes. Increasingly all types of social security are inadequate to cover the basic cost of living. For that matter, so is minimum wage... it's hardly specific to retired people. At the end of the day, either tax rates will skyrocket, age of benefit eligibility will increase drastically as lives extend or generally the standard payment will dwindle to irrelevance. It basically already has. I don't know a single retired person who can afford to live JUST on social security income and post-pension era retirement. Even those friends or relatives of mine who had decent retirement portfolios post market collapse have had to obtain part time jobs to keep a fairly minimal standard of living (IE, they are never going to replace that 2004 Jeep Wrangler before they can no longer drive).

So you can argue the academics all you want. You can call me ignorant for not giving a shit about looking up the intricacies of how the bureaucracy or Congress or Repubs or Dems or the Russians or China or Detroit or whoever is responsible actually fucking the system. It's true, I am to a degree. I hate the policy of Glenn Beck just as much as I do any idiot on capital hill that tries to pass idealism instead of realism to get reelected and have feelgood television spots. Do I care right now about any of this stuff in a serious sense? Not really. I really don't have a horse in this race right now. That's part of the problem for the majority of Americans, I suppose. Personally, I can navigate the rough seas of the healthcare system and I will figure out a way to retire on my own because I have the skills and work ethic to do so. However, I do feel sorry for the people getting shafted, both for those who do not get adequate social services that they need and those who pay into these broken systems.

So please, call me a Republican or thinking that social services are not adequate in this country or a democrat for thinking that the deficit and economic issues ARE a bigger deal than they seem and that being fiscally conservative isn't a bad idea when the principles are used properly to support modern economic necessities as a consumer nation instead of an industrial one. Oh you can toss libertarian at me too for believing that certain industries need far more regulation while you're throwing around the wrong labels to devalue opinion. Go ahead, ask me about abortion if you want to find out just how 'red' I really am.

I live on just SS income and dividends besides emergencies. It's quite doable. I could even slim down my budget to just SS if we had to.

I'm literally throwing money away at $60k combined income, savings and gifts this month are planned to be around $2000 for Christ's sake. ($500 in flowers alone)

But I don't waste money daily, and don't buy something early on debt. (except the house, paid half up front and paid it off in 5 years though)

People have false dreams that aren't achievable. Normal SS cap of $30k each is quite livable, that's $60k for a couple! (wife and I aren't capped, I was close but disability has a penalty)

And mind you this is all being accomplished here by me in one of the most expensive counties in the nation. Once I move to FL (and open my business) $60k will likely go much further unless the shop flags.

Now on the ACA, the issues you've mentioned are actually slightly improved now by the ACA. But at its heart business worlds need to be out of medicine. Especially marketing.

PS Most libertarians are OK with abortion. More consistent than with Dems in my circles in fact. Course most libertarians are "Pro-choice" about every topic, it's almost a definition to them.

I get by on SS income and my $3k/month alimony easily, I really don't understand your point of people not being able to live off of SS.

OneofOne_sl said:

I get by on SS income and my $3k/month alimony easily,I really don't understand your point of people not being able to live off of SS.

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Do they also get $3k alimony/mo?

SS does range quite a bit. $708 up to $2k something a month, the bottom might be painful, but that's only really for those that never paid in.

Even full time at minimum wage for your last 10 quarters will get you around $1-1.2k. And of course, for retirement SS working isn't penalized, so if you were desperate for an extra couple hundred work is an option.

Silence_sl said:

Do they also get $3k alimony/mo?

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That... was my point.

OneofOne_sl said:

That... was my point.

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So it was meant as sarcasm against me with my net of $60k with additional income? You do realize if you do the math about how much I save each month - that I provided - I'm at around the 75% threshold for a single earner on SS for the wife and I for our operating income BEFORE the investment income.

I could've just said we live on Social Security money and been accurate, but it would've been abbreviating - the extra does provide more buffer for bad times so it's disingenuous to not call it a factor though. But it definitely is a doable budget without too much of a safety net.

I laugh at that, and mentioning you put 50% down on your home and then paid it off in 5 years - something someone on SS can easily do right? I gather that also means you have no monthly rent/mortgage? Something most other people have, including those on SS. Also making a big point of how much you save, only possible because of your additional income. I don't even think you'd understand.

If you have points to make, do so. But stay away from comparisons between yourself and the "average person", because you aren't one financially.

I operate on $30k which is a pretty normal amount - and if people aren't stupid and run out and get second mortgages it's pretty damned easy to pay off your house if it's the right size house for you (Hint: Not $300k for most people - hell, before appreciation after the fact I didn't live in a $300k house) by the time you hit 65-68 when you'll retire.

If you buy your first home at 35 with $25k down make sure you're doing a $125k or less place (you know that oft quoted 20% guideline), and then make sure you're getting $5k against the principal every year - that even gives you leeway to retire early by 10 years or have $50k of mishaps you need to pull out some of the principal or refi to access some immediate scratch. And if work makes you move, make sure you're getting most of the equity back out - don't take a substantial equity hit unless the math works out.

I understand it's hard to get out from underwater once you're there - but if you're smart about things, you can easily move ahead - I spend my "working" time these days until after we move counseling homeless guys to get them back to work - mostly on resume and interview prep, but it's not rare that financial advice comes up as well. I've seen guys literally that couldn't rub two pennies together when they first entered into the volunteer program purchase their first homes within five years.

The key? They know better than to take on debt for anything.

Social security is a similar boat - don't take on substantial debts and it won't be an issue - you know how much my monthly bills are (besides escrow stuff for the property taxes and the like, since I let the accountant handle those and I tend to just take a lean January to set it aside for the whole year in advance) for myself and the wife combined?

About $1200 of essentials every month covering: Car, Utilities, food, a $300 gaming budget, cable, cell phones. $400 of total entertainment budget a month for both of us, likely a far cry from many people. Also only about a $400 food budget that we stick to as well, we entertain in most of the time rather than wasting our money on restaurants - only takes moderate talent to outdo anything under $50 plate at a fraction of the cost. Sure, we'll go to someplace fancy once a month for an occasion rarely out of the "mad money", but it's a rarity and certainly not something that would a sign of "neglect" if someone didn't find it reachable. And then past that we have a $1300 mad money budget that I mentioned briefly ahead of this - which generally gets used up on various stuff (usually holidays would be out of this, but wife had neurosurgery a week ago Monday - guess where that budget is going? ^_^ - probably getting it all back eventually since she's got Medicare, but Medicare's fussing about a bunch of stuff because she was in an accident after this injury, so I'm just paying in cash and getting reimbursed rather than paying $0 and hoping Medicare straightens in out and if not comes back and surprises us with the cost + a fine), followed by the huge chunk that goes straight to savings.

Only thing abnormal in there, is we run a tight food budget ($20/day for a couple is closer to the national average vs our $13ish) - rest is pretty normal besides entertainment and other frivolous spending.

And again keep in mind, the wife and I COMBINED get equivalent to a single person at max Social Security benefits (need roughly 10 working years at $75k to attain 100% - 80% is around what the median worker gets) - potential for a couple on SS is up to $60k for a couple with two maxed beneficiaries.

Now the bottom might be too low, as I stated earlier - but it's absolutely operable income for those that paid into it a healthy amount. If you hear someone bitching about "it's impossible to live off SS" there's only a few categories they can fall into none of which are particularly positive:
a) Poor work record so they qualify for very low social security amounts. (near the $708/mo or so minimum as stated before)
b) Cannot make a proper budget and scale their budget appropriately to their new income. (Note: My in-laws were this way, they retired to SS with close to $1m on hand - they declared bankruptcy within 10 years - they kept spending like they were earning $65k/yr + his freelancing money [he's a writer] instead of trimming their budget to the $35k they were now getting - $50k or so a year of bleeding plus interest because of using credit cards and such... and whammo...)
c) Have completely unrealistic expectations of what "retirement" means - some envision running around the world ten weeks at a time as a norm - I'd go broke doing that, but it's a commonly listed "retirement dream" if you read the nonsense people plan.

Social Security is meant to help people make ends meet, which is a purpose it serves and can achieve. With the caveat of understanding it's going to be shit if you don't have a good work record (i.e. investing in it properly) and that either you should have your home paid off before you stop working or have planned it's costs in with what your income will drop down to.

If you want dreams and trips and such to be achieved that's something you have to be more of a go-getter to achieve - either through additional investment vehicles or by you and the spouse working hard enough to max out your social security payout. (Trust me, $60k on retirement you could live la vida loca more or less if you wanted to - with limited restraint)

I'll be the first that admit I'm not "normal" fiscally, but I work with "normals" and "below averages" all the damn time - debt is really a cancer on building a proper financial foundation. Debt should only ever be used for things that will recover most of their value or eventually generate a profit - every time you spend a financing charge on something consumable or depreciating you're making yourself less fiscally viable. I stick to homes, businesses and cars as the only things that should be regularly debted for (And the last does lose value literally - but enables a ton of work that wouldn't otherwise be available, a large catalyst - a phone is similar, but the low cost doesn't make it worth debting for)

Waste is a sin - and debt is almost a religion of waste.

Yes, unless you're single. Or you live in a decent area with nominal property tax rates. Or you need 15k in roof repairs after a bad winter. Or your car dies after 180K miles and 12 years. Or you need QoL surgery not fully covered by insurance. Or your furnace dies. Or your septic rots through finally. Or a new development shifts groundwater and requires you to drill a new well.

Palum_sl said:

Yes, unless you're single. Or you live in a decent area with nominal property tax rates. Or you need 15k in roof repairs after a bad winter. Or your car dies after 180K miles and 12 years. Or you need QoL surgery not fully covered by insurance. Or your furnace dies. Or your septic rots through finally. Or a new development shifts groundwater and requires you to drill a new well.

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I can see where you're going with all that, and have no beef with any of it but the car. It only took you 5 to 7 years to pay it off the first time, that final 5-7 should have given you plenty of time to save up a chunk for the next one. You were expecting to (have to) buy a next one, eventually... right?

That said, it's so much easier staying in good financial shape when you're already in good financial shape, be it from hard work, or daddy's trust fund. But once you fall off that plateau, when you start making shitty financial decisions because it's them or eating ramen outside a frigidair box by the river... things can go south in a hurry. Even if the dice roll good and your bad decisions don't break you, so much of the time you're only treading water (while the waves get rougher and the sharks ever closer).

Still... The statistic is what, something like 80% of americans are 2 crises away from ruin, something like that.

Palum_sl said:

Yes, unless you're single. Or you live in a decent area with nominal property tax rates. Or you need 15k in roof repairs after a bad winter. Or your car dies after 180K miles and 12 years. Or you need QoL surgery not fully covered by insurance. Or your furnace dies. Or your septic rots through finally. Or a new development shifts groundwater and requires you to drill a new well.

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Note what I said about making sure you have access to the equity you put into the house.... Yes, it would suck to loose some ground to get things taken care of without taking on true debt, but it's better than the alternative.

Additionally for every single one of those property cases - if your income is below a certain level (which most SS recipients that are single (per your suggestion) would fall under - I think $35k is the cap on single, $45k family - tricky but not impossible for family) there are Federal loan programs available for vital home repairs at 0% interest if paid back within 5 years I believe - with a cap of $25k I think? Only restrictions are no pools, spas and tennis courts that I recall.

It also stretches above the income cap as well but it's not a "shoe-in" at that point - I was actually able to qualify here in Maryland for it (we're the highest income state though, so likely have the highest threshold to it as well) for the aforementioned energy leak once BGE informed me of the problem and told me about the program to make it "affordable" (I didn't inform them of my financial situation) before finding out that it's something I can leave to the rental agency.

On car I did state that was worth debting for. [Also note, cars - like houses as well - are incredibly low APR compared to conventional debt like credit cards]

On wells - that's a question mark to me, always had municipal water for the house - that might well count towards the Federal renovation program though which again, 0% interest - so it's not really debting.

On QoL surgery - if we're talking about being on Social Security, that's Medicare - all QoL surgery besides those that fall under the mantle of exclusively cosmetic are accessible with a 100% coverage for most (even before the deductible is met) with a relatively inexpensive secondary insurance. And even without I think they're covered 80% for non-hospital ones, and 100% for hospital ones. (I can speak first hand to skin grafts and digital bone fusions done exclusively for QoL being covered first hand)

[Additionally even if they don't there are lenders like CareCredit that offer deferred payment Credit Card stuff - where you can pay off the debt in 6/12/18 months at 0% APR but then the entire interest catches up if you don't - debting like that isn't too bad for flexibility for such if you're desperate - still better to have a nest egg for handling emergencies in cash though]

The important thing is to get ahead of the game and to STAY AHEAD OF THE GAME.

Yes, as Ninen stated, I was lucky with my family I have had the freedom to screw up and create what would've been a quagmire then say "Oh well, that's why I don't touch the trust" and fix the problem and move on without a speed bump. But for literally 5 years now, I've operated exclusively on Social Security income and not needed to touch my "safety net" monthly cash most months (this month being the exception due to State Farm and Medicare's kerfuffle and me being proactive) much less my trust for that entire time.

Because I know how to budget and I did it properly. Take the same budget but add $150 a month being added each month in debt on 19% APR credit cards and I think I'd lose viability without the additional incomes very quickly.

I'll be the first to admit it's easier for me to reach the ideal, but it's the same ideal everyone should have a roadmap for - because once you're there it makes you financial life much easier. I'm not trying to say the travel there is easy - although the sooner you start on the path the easier it is, because come retirement EVERYONE NEEDS TO DO IT (except for the megawealthy and statistically no one here is going to be one, or if we're lucky one or two on the entire forum) - and most people fail when they try to adjust to it as a one year thing instead of a lifetime plan.

Derp de doohttp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ve-gott/?idiot

Kreugen_sl said:

Derp de doohttp://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ve-gott/?idiot

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Rand Paul completely out of touch with reality, say it aint so!

U.S. Uninsured Rate Drops to 13.4%

The uninsured rate for U.S. adults in April was 13.4%, down from 15.0% in March. This is the lowest monthly uninsured rate recorded since Gallup and Healthways began tracking it in January 2008, besting the previous low of 13.9% in September of that year.

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Is that a question or a statement?

Trollface_sl said:

i think statement.

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But is THIS a question or a statement?

Disp_sl said:

U.S. Uninsured Rate Drops to 13.4%

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Does anyone else see the disconnect here? Even if we take the governments numbers at face value (lol), we have a mere 8 million people who have signed up for Obamacare. So how in the fuck do you arrive at this fantastic numbers being rolled out? Its a statistical impossibility. We are supposed to believe this huge drop in people who are uninsured, even though only 8 million, out of 300 million Americans are even signed up with Obamacare. This is complete horseshit. It laughable. Does anyone actually believe this?