Health Care Thread
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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There are often extremely heroic and expensive measures taken to prolong life in the US, even when they know damn well the person will die in 1 month, if they can keep them alive an extra week, fuck it, million dollars. I'm not saying I wouldn't want them to do the same for me but it's ludicrously expensive and often gives little to no benefit.
And Izo thats often exactly how the retards position it to ignorant country people (i.e. voters) in this country... THE KENYAN MUSLIM IS GOING TO DECIDE WHEN YOU DIE... DONT LET HIM DO IT! KEEP YOUR CARE IN THE HANDS OF YOUR DOCTOR! Etc.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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First off, thanks for confirming I was correct that US healthcare is superior to Canada's and that my chances of surviving cancer are higher in the US.
Secondly, it is a collosal mistake on your part to believe the US healthcare industry resembles anything close to free market capitalism. If you had understood my points correctly, you would understand that adopting free market principles would 1) lower costs and 2) improve quality (basic Econ 101 stuff that non-Marxists understand).
Cad
scientia potentia est
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I understand you're just trolling so I'll be brief.
Had you read even the minor excerpt, you'd realize our care is only better for those over 65. Under 65, our care is middle of the road. Precisely because of the free market preventing young people from getting the care we are all paying for.
tldr; you're still stupid
Izo
Tranny Chaser
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What's tilting the national health care budget is prices on drugs. We have extensive programmers to give the extremely expensive biological drugs to those whom it will actually benefit to make the budget work. DK hasn't yet made positive lists on what drugs we can use. Britain has made positive cancer drug lists. Other countries have drug councils. I'm thinking this will be the future for most countries, cost-benefit on drugs. I wonder what it will do for the drug research and development.
British National Health Service Stops Paying for Lifesaving Drugs | Health Policy Blog | NCPA.org
British National Health Service Stops Paying for Lifesaving Drugs | Health Policy Blog | NCPA.org
Cad
scientia potentia est
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The party line I've heard is that US Drug prices pay for the lions share of R&D for new drugs, since a lot of other countries mandate price controls and will invalidate patents if the pharma companies don't play ball. But here in the US they charge whatever, insurance/medicare pays it because the Doctors prescribed it, and the pharma companies have reps in the office pushing kickbacks on the doctors for prescribing the new drugs (at no cost to the Dr. or patient!). As a result we pay a shit ton more than other countries for pharma.
I don't know how true that is but it's annoying if true. All the first-world countries should share the burden of medical/drug research.
I love it when someone accuses me of being stupid yet their own citation proves I was correct. Cad's reading comprehension skills are clearly lacking. His own citation confirmed what anyone with a functional brain already knew. The quality of healthcare in the US is clearly better than Canada's and your chances of surviving cancer are higher as a result. It says so clearly in black and white in Cad's citation. Only a leftwing retard with his head up his ass would argue otherwise.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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The quality of healthcare in the US is only superior for those who can afford it, not for all citizens.
Furthermore, good cancer survival rates does not mean your health care system is superior. It just means you have better cancer treatment (again, for those who can afford it).
Furthermore, good cancer survival rates does not mean your health care system is superior. It just means you have better cancer treatment (again, for those who can afford it).
I think you are close to having an epiphany. You at least now agree that the quality of healthcare in the US is superior. The key now is how to maximize the number of people who have access to it. The Democrats want to increase taxes and subsidize the premium costs to help low income citizens. This is at the expense of lowering the quality of healthcare and without doing anything to reduce costs for everyone else. Low income citizens are happy but everyone else is screwed. The GOP wants to adopt free market principals and let competition force down costs while at the same time maintaining the already highest quality system in the world. This lowers the cost for everyone instead of only helping a voting demographic you need to keep poor so they will keep voting for you.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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You can't have 'the best' healthcare in the world with a publicly funded system IMO. However, you CAN have the best cared for people.
Here's my question to you. Do you think the health system of a country where 50% of the population has access tothe besthealth care is superior to one where 100% of the population has access toexcellenthealthcare?
Here's my question to you. Do you think the health system of a country where 50% of the population has access tothe besthealth care is superior to one where 100% of the population has access toexcellenthealthcare?
Pops
Avatar of War Slayer
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Wait til you are old and dying.
My mother, who had good health care coverage, got put into in-home hospice care. My home. Ordered by a Doc from a non-profit hospital. Run by a non-profit organization. They were salivating. I canceled her own policy.
$10,000 a month was billed to CA Medical. Had a constant stream of nurses, maids, doctors, social workers, all sucking off the Medical teat. Free bed, medicine, oxygen tank, etc. The only thing that wasn't free was me. I won't describe what I went through. She lived a year like that. If you call what she endured, living.
The most money is spent in those last months, keeping alive, someone who should have been dead.
My mother, who had good health care coverage, got put into in-home hospice care. My home. Ordered by a Doc from a non-profit hospital. Run by a non-profit organization. They were salivating. I canceled her own policy.
$10,000 a month was billed to CA Medical. Had a constant stream of nurses, maids, doctors, social workers, all sucking off the Medical teat. Free bed, medicine, oxygen tank, etc. The only thing that wasn't free was me. I won't describe what I went through. She lived a year like that. If you call what she endured, living.
The most money is spent in those last months, keeping alive, someone who should have been dead.
82% of Americans had health care coverage prior to Obamacare. Obamacare has increased that number by roughly 8%. BTW the wait times for services in Canada is well documented. Do you still count that as 'excellent" if you have to wait several weeks to see a physician?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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You only experience waits if your condition is not life threatening. Every hospital will treat you immediately in an emergency, and every general practitioner will see you immediately too. You do wait for things that rely on limited pieces of medical hardware like CAT scans or MRIs though. Specialized surgeries too, but even then...
Ive waited for haircut appointments and restaurant reservations longer doctor wait lists. The wait list boogieman is shit politicians use to frighten poor conservatives who can't afford treatment anyway.
And those 82% of insured people. Did they have benefits as good as those Canadians or Europeans have? Where they pay for almost nothing and have access to world class treatment from any doctor they wish, for any number of ailments? Or, as I suspect, do most have shitty insurance that still makes them foot the bill for a large part of many treatment costs?
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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When we feel that a patient does not have a serious issue and doesn't need to go to the ER, especially by ambulance, we say
"It couldn't hurt to set up an appointment with your doctor and be seen about your [ankle pain, w/e], but we don't see anything right now that tells us you need to go to the ER. That being said, we're more than happy to take you in if you feel that this is a true emergency, or you could have a friend take you in".
A conservative estimate is that we hear"I have [Oregon health plan/Obamacare], so I should be covered"at least 4 times per week. Drives me fucking crazy, because they're usually worthless, dramatic pussies. I wish we had a mandatory $10 deductible that had to be paid on the spot.
edit: Also, insurance won't pay us for rides like this where THEY decide that ambulance transport was not needed. We can't refuse a patient (for good reason), but we don't get reimbursed for these rides. The worst part is that it takes an ALS ambulance out of service for ~45 minutes. If someone else has a heart attack while we're transporting a 45 year old drunk woman with a busted pinky, our most qualified crew isn't available.
"It couldn't hurt to set up an appointment with your doctor and be seen about your [ankle pain, w/e], but we don't see anything right now that tells us you need to go to the ER. That being said, we're more than happy to take you in if you feel that this is a true emergency, or you could have a friend take you in".
A conservative estimate is that we hear"I have [Oregon health plan/Obamacare], so I should be covered"at least 4 times per week. Drives me fucking crazy, because they're usually worthless, dramatic pussies. I wish we had a mandatory $10 deductible that had to be paid on the spot.
edit: Also, insurance won't pay us for rides like this where THEY decide that ambulance transport was not needed. We can't refuse a patient (for good reason), but we don't get reimbursed for these rides. The worst part is that it takes an ALS ambulance out of service for ~45 minutes. If someone else has a heart attack while we're transporting a 45 year old drunk woman with a busted pinky, our most qualified crew isn't available.
Frenzied Wombat
Potato del Grande
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I lived in Canada for 32 years and here in Texas for the last 10. I can categorically say that the only situation where the US system is better (based on personal experience and observation) is if a) You're wealthy and/or have great insurance, AND b) you will either be cured quickly or die quickly.. In all other scenarios the Canadian system is better. After watching my mother battle cancer (and insurance companies) for nine years here in Texas, and my uncle battling cancer in Canada, I would be back in Canadia in a heartbeat if I came down with the big C, and I even have "good" insurance..
Where is the US system better? Non urgent diagnostics, lab work, and routine check-ups. You have to wait in line for these in Canada, and in the case of routine check ups or "doctor's office" appointments he's not inclined to run an efficient or timely schedule because of the way he is compensated. If you need a non-urgent MRI in Canada ('cause of say minor back pain) you'll wait six weeks unless you want to dole out $500 at a private MRI center (which is still cheaper than the US).
So assuming you have the coin/insurance your non-urgent things are handled quicker in the States. Outside of that, I found them just as efficient in Canada minus the bullshit of dealing with insurance companies, co-pay, in and out of network, etc..
The US system imho is a moral abomination. Everybody will get sick, everybody will die, and everyone should share the cost burden. Period. This isn't a matter of "choice", because you will get sick one day and SOMEONE will have to pay for it, if not you. Universal coverage for a universal problem is a logical no brainer. Nobody should be vomiting from chemo treatment while sitting on hold with United Deathcare because you now have an added stress of trying to figure out why they just denied a $10,000 claim.. It's shameful.