Health Care Thread

Arbitrary · Nov 1, 2013

One of my friends, when confronted with health care statistics, will either state that other countries are lying or cherry pick stats that the U.S. isn't miserable at.

BREAST CANCER SURVIVAL RATE WHAT ABOUT THAT HUH

Royal · Nov 1, 2013

Dashel_sl said:
Healthcare in the US is the best in the world, if you can afford it. So its cost not availability.

The growth of medical tourism from the US to countries in Europe and Asia in the last 10 years call this into question. People are starting to abroad for healthcare every bit as good as what they can obtain here, at a fraction of the cost.

Arbitrary · Nov 1, 2013

If you've got insane amounts of money you go to Switzerland. The amount of luxury some of their hospitals can provide is unmatched.

TrollfaceDeux · Nov 1, 2013

Royal_sl said:
The growth of medical tourism from the US to countries in Europe andAsiain the last 10 years call this into question. People are starting to abroad for healthcare every bit as good as what they can obtain here, at a fraction of the cost.

not sure about the quality. Mostly, it is cost effective measures.

But health care is cheaper in other countries. Medical devices are sold at fraction of the cost, including the drug itself. Why is this happening? I dunno. Too much restriction in patents and trade maybe?

Vaclav · Nov 1, 2013

Dashel_sl said:
Healthcare in the US is the best in the world, if you can afford it. So its cost not availability.

Depends on the treatment type - for most treatments these days, that's not true. Only a handful are "best in the world" anymore for the US exclusively with only a few having us in the #1 spot while sharing the rest of the top 10, we only have #1 in a handful of fields. [And most of those treatments are relatively rare ones - transplants are one we excel in, while they're quite rare]

[And of course it depends where in the nation you are - there's like 3 "best ofs" within 1000 miles if you're in the middle of the nation - none that I can think of below Virginia on the East Coast as well... but a ton in Maryland, Boston, Washington (state) and a few in California]

Vaclav · Nov 1, 2013

Trollface_sl said:
not sure about the quality. Mostly, it is cost effective measures.

But health care is cheaper in other countries. Medical devices are sold at fraction of the cost, including the drug itself. Why is this happening? I dunno. Too much restriction in patents and trade maybe?

They cost roughly the same for the devices, just they're subsidized by the state largely. Drugs however are largely due to the "rigorous" drug testing we put them through, even though our net quality standards are below cheaper FDA equivalents in other nations because of how inefficient our total process is - universalized medical records being a big one that maybe we'll get around to by 2100 at the current rate.

TrollfaceDeux · Nov 1, 2013

U.S. Medical Device Industry In Critical Condition - Forbes

The Myth of the Medical-Device Tax - NYTimes.com

Malakriss · Nov 1, 2013

edit: Nevermind, browser shenanigans.

Agraza · Nov 1, 2013

Consumer Reportsowning the Florida story.

TL;DR...

So, using tools available through eHealthinsurance.com (I'll walk you through this useful resource tomorrow), I determined that she qualifies for a premium subsidy of $320 a month. She can use that to purchase a Humana Direct Silver 4600/6300 plan for $165 a month.

To put these two plans in perspective, let's imagine that Ms. Barrette's luck runs out and she receives a diagnosis of breast cancer that will cost $120,000 to treat.

Under her current junk plan, she would probably receive no more than a few hundred dollars of benefits for doctor visits and drugs. It wouldn't cover her surgery, her chemotherapy, her many expensive medications, or the repeated diagnostic tests she'd likely require. She would end up with probably $119,000 of unpaid medical bills. With the Humana plan, those bills top out at $6,300 a year, no matter what.

Vaclav · Nov 1, 2013

Great to see the facts elaborated on to be concise and detailed.

wormie · Nov 1, 2013

Lol facts. Facts are for evil socialist communist nazi who live in muslimland. That shit won't stop the true Americans from pushing back against the encroachment of the anti christ.

TrollfaceDeux · Nov 1, 2013

it's not so much what facts are. it is what facts illustrate and interpretation of that fact.

she is getting more for what she would pay, so i guess it's a good thing.

TheBeagle · Nov 1, 2013

You guess its a good thing? $119k in debt or $6k in debt and its still only a "i guess it's a good thing" Lol.

TrollfaceDeux · Nov 1, 2013

you'd be in debt if you decide to save your life. you can say no to that, not get treated and die. Not sure what you what me to say. You pay more for more coverage. In that sense, you'd still be paying more. The return for your money spent won't be used properly if you don't get sick from breast cancer.

About 1 in 8 (12%) women in the US will develop invasive breast cancer during their lifetime.

So if you happen to be in that 7 in 8 or even 3 in 8, you won't be getting your return.

It's still good, since government will be subsidizing a portion of your cost if you are poor.

Vaclav · Nov 1, 2013

That's a single disease possibility out of many - and it like many of them would be a huge winner.

Even something relatively common like an appendix removal runs an average of $33k with the range being $1.5k at the lowend and $180k (seriously!?!?) on the high end if you're not insured.

tad10 · Nov 1, 2013

Vaclav_sl said:
Depends on the treatment type - for most treatments these days, that's not true. Only a handful are "best in the world" anymore for the US exclusively with only a few having us in the #1 spot while sharing the rest of the top 10, we only have #1 in a handful of fields. [And most of those treatments are relatively rare ones - transplants are one we excel in, while they're quite rare]

I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong. US leads the world in all aspects of health care including the development of new pharmaceuticals.

But you're welcome to cite something to the contrary.

TrollfaceDeux · Nov 1, 2013

Vaclav_sl said:
That's a single disease possibility out of many - and it like many of them would be a huge winner.

Even something relatively common like an appendix removal runs an average of $33k with the range being $1.5k at the lowend and $180k (seriously!?!?) on the high end if you're not insured.

I am not discussing whether the coverage has been extended. It was a reply to, " $119k in debt or $6k in debt" in relation to the breast cancer, which was a hypothetical raised by the article.

It's not the most generous plan in the world. The deductible is $4,600 and the only things the plan pays for outside the deductible are preventive services, the first $500 of diagnostic lab tests and x-rays in the year, and "diagnostic" office visits, meaning going to the doctor because you're feeling awful and need to know what's wrong. Visits for treatment are subject to the deductible. There's a separate $1,500 deductible for prescription drugs, after which there's a copay of $10 for generics and $50 for brand-name drugs. Once you've run up $6,300 in out-of-pocket expenses, the plan picks up 100 percent of your costs for the rest of the year.

To put these two plans in perspective, let's imagine that Ms. Barrette's luck runs out and she receives a diagnosis of breast cancer that will cost $120,000 to treat.

Under her current junk plan, she would probably receive no more than a few hundred dollars of benefits for doctor visits and drugs. It wouldn't cover her surgery, her chemotherapy, her many expensive medications, or the repeated diagnostic tests she'd likely require. She would end up with probably $119,000 of unpaid medical bills. With the Humana plan, those bills top out at $6,300 a year, no matter what.

What i am describing is principles of insurance. It is a better deal for the person, due to the subsidies. Subsidies which, I think, the government pays.

tad10 · Nov 1, 2013

Agraza_sl said:
Consumer Reports

TL;DR...

So basically she has to get cancer to make the fact she's paying three times as much for the Obamacare plan a good idea.

Nice.

I notice how Consumer Reports fails to mention the fact that shew also will end up paying for Maternity Care and Dental and Health Care for children she doesn't and can never have because that's mandated for Obamacare plans.

Anyway, I love how you guys are rooting for a lady to get cancer now.

wormie · Nov 1, 2013

tad10_sl said:
So basically she has to get cancer to make the fact she's paying three times as much for the Obamacare plan a good idea.

Nice.

I notice how Consumer Reports fails to mention the fact that shew also will end up paying for Maternity Care and Dental and Health Care for children she doesn't and can never have because that's mandated for Obamacare plans.

Anyway, I love how you guys are rooting for a lady to get cancer now.

Yeah cancer is the only disease that people get. Hey shit for brains, how many people go bankrupt every year because of medical costs?

Kirun · Nov 2, 2013

wormie_sl said:
Yeah cancer is the only disease that people get. Hey shit for brains, how many people go bankrupt every year because of medical costs?

If you're rich, you never go bankrupt! Why do we need the ACA, when the solution is so obvious?

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