Health Care Thread

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fanaskin

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yeah I know it was such a scathing rebuke of obamacare when I stated "in the most extreme conditions, X could theoretically happen" and they do have to pay attention it doesn't happen. I've seen it talked about in white house statements it's not something I made up.
 
Araysar

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and in the most extreme case theoretically the world could end in 2012 and Lumie would be right.

theoreticaly, of course. in the most extreme case.
 
Sebudai

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If they wanted me to take the theory seriously, they probably should've used a different term than "economic death spiral."
 
TheBeagle

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fanaskin_sl said:
however it's unlikely it would take a couple years of young people deciding to pay the fine and only buying insurance when they needed it because the law states you can't be refused for any reason, and the penalty is very passively enforced.
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JFC what kind of sentence is this? I've read it four times and I can't make sense of it. Did you go the Sarah Palin School of Journalism or what?
 
Araysar

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Your mother for giving birth to a down's baby and spending money on bringing it to adulthood.
 
Tuco

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Attacking the ACA is so easy anyone who screws it up should really think about what they're doing in life.
 
Flipmode

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TheBeagle_sl said:
As a liberal who's displeased with the ACA I will play the part of a reasonable conservative since the conserve-a-tards in this thread are incapable.

Problem #1. People are being dropped from their insurance in droves. This is a problem for Obama because he made the promise that everyone can keep their current plans. Like that stupid "red line" he drew for Syria, he backed himself in a corner by making a promise that can't be kept. Dems will argue that the plans being dropped were shitty to begin with, but they should have anticipated the mass cancellations. Advantage - Republitards.

Problem #2. Costs are going up for the majority of middle class families that don't have pre-existing conditions. ObummerCare was billed as a fix to rising health care costs for the majority of Americans. This isn't happening. The Dems will argue that this is out of their control since healthcare is still in the hands of private insurance companies, not to mention businesses that are using ObummerCare as an easy excuse to further stick it to their workers by dropping healthcare and blaming it on the Black Prince. Advantage - neither.

Problem #3 Coverage gap in states that didn't expand Medicaid. Living in TX I see first hand how worthless the ACA is for people below the poverty line. It does jackshit. The Dems will argue that its not their fault the Rep governors refuse to implement it, but this should have been anticipated and accounted for when the law was written. Anyone with a pulse knew the GOP would fight this tooth and nail until the bitter end. Advantage - both sides suck equally

Problem #4 Website sucks huge, socialist, bloated government monkey balls. No doubt this is a huge Obama fuck up, he owns this one. No doubt. Advantage - Reps.

The problem is if the TeaTards actually cared about America they wouldn't be so gleeful that so many fellow Americans are experiencing hardships from this disaster and would work to fix it instead of standing around screaming "I told you so!". Its obvious they aren't patriots, they don't care about helping America, they only care about scoring points. It's fucking sad and pathetic.
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Problem #1 - There was a list of what changes could and could not be made for a policy to keep its grandfathered status and thus remain as is. It was the insurance companies who CHOSE to cancel those policies and not the ACA that forced them out. Its really not a coincidence that a lot of the policies canceled are on the people with preexisting conditions, BTW. The insurance companies are doing that shit on purpose to increase their profit margins, plain and simple. The policies that actually got canceled by the ACA were the shitty predatory ones to begin with. Those people upset about that can piss off.

Problem #2 - Costs are going up. And while the ACA limits the amount costs can rise, it did little to actually contain the costs like it should have. Obama basically gave the drug companies a sweetheart deal and served the entire US population up to the insurance companies. While the ACA contains some improvements, it didnt go far enough. Single payer needs to happen to seriously control the cost. Why should we let for profit companies with profit margins run our healthcare system? why should we let drug companies continue to charge us in excess of 1000-4000% what they charge the rest of the world? We really need to get them to charge what they charge the rest of the civilized world for medicine and stop subsidizing them. They already make record profits as it is.

Problem #3 - agreed

Problem #4 - agreed. No excuse to not have had this thoroughly tested and programmed correctly. Especially if you are making this a law. It becomes that much more important.

The Tea Party and the GOP specifically just generally oppose anything the left tries to pass to be obstructionist. It doesnt matter if it was their own idea first. Now the black prince is trying to pass it so its an automatic no vote. You see they have yet to come up with any alternatives of their own for anything except blah blah private sector or blah blah corporate tax breaks. Same old right wing stuff.
 
Siddar

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Obama below 40% job approval and now negative personal approval.
Democrats in free fall politically.
50.000 people signed up for Obamacare maybe, with several million losing there coverage as a result. Wasn't the purpose of this program to decrease the number of uninsured?
Middle Class liberals getting large cost increases for Healthcare.
Young people Ignoring Obamacare all together.
Democrats trying to explain away Obama's lying about being able to keep there plan.
Government showing why government should stay out of business with its complete joke of a website.
More Obamacare train wrecks still yet to come like when millions of more people lose there plans because of companies canceling them instead of paying extra costs Obamacare will impose on them right before the 2014 midterms.
The basic reality that there is nothing that can be done to undo what Obamacare has done to the individual healthcare market even as democrats scramble to try and fix the problem created by Obama's lies.

The 2014 death panels for the democrats are fast approaching.

Its easy to be a republican these days when democrats simply cant do anything right.
 
Big Phoenix

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Siddar you fucking tard Obama promised people could keep their health insurance. What the fuck dont you get stop lying.
 
Araysar

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Siddar_sl said:
Obama below 40% job approval and now negative personal approval.
Democrats in free fall politically.
50.000 people signed up for Obamacare maybe, with several million losing there coverage as a result. Wasn't the purpose of this program to decrease the number of uninsured?
Middle Class liberals getting large cost increases for Healthcare.
Young people Ignoring Obamacare all together.
Democrats trying to explain away Obama's lying about being able to keep there plan.
Government showing why government should stay out of business with its complete joke of a website.
More Obamacare train wrecks still yet to come like when millions of more people lose there plans because of companies canceling them instead of paying extra costs Obamacare will impose on them right before the 2014 midterms.
The basic reality that there is nothing that can be done to undo what Obamacare has done to the individual healthcare market even as democrats scramble to try and fix the problem created by Obama's lies.

The 2014 death panels for the democrats are fast approaching.

Its easy to be a republican these days when democrats simply cant do anything right.
Click to expand...

Tell us, what are the Republican approval numbers like?
 
fanaskin

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Flipmode_sl said:
Problem #1 - There was a list of what changes could and could not be made for a policy to keep its grandfathered status and thus remain as is. It was the insurance companies who CHOSE to cancel those policies and not the ACA that forced them out. Its really not a coincidence that a lot of the policies canceled are on the people with preexisting conditions, BTW. The insurance companies are doing that shit on purpose to increase their profit margins, plain and simple. The policies that actually got canceled by the ACA were the shitty predatory ones to begin with. Those people upset about that can piss off.
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I find that hard to believe that considering the law states that if a plan changes 5$ it's null and voided and there's penalties written into the law to penalize insurance companies if they don't comply with new regulations. both the democrats and the insurance companies want to get rid of the individual market, the insurance companies don't like the risk and the democrats want those people in pools with chronically sick people.

Democratic pollsters have noticed that insurance companies aren't popular so that's the line.
Dem Pollster: Blame Insurance Companies for Cancellations, 'They Are a Fantastic Enemy'

WaPo Gives WH Claim That Insurance Companies to Blame for Cancellations '3 Pinocchios'

they wrote the regulations so narrow they knew they where lying when they said "that you can keep your plan" and they planned to get rid of the individual market, which is exactly what ezekial emanuel says in a clip in this link

Obamacare Architect Ezekiel Emanuel: 'Individual Insurance Market Is Going Away'


the reason obama made that promise is because far too many Americans hate the concept that they are being forced into this thing they don't want and it would never have gotten passed if it wasn't sold as a bait and switch like that. when clinton tried the overhaul in the 90's that was a major reason politically why it didn't work, it never polled well that people would be forced off plans they liked.
 
bleedat

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This President and this legislation will go down as total flops. His legacy will be tarnished by this failed and totally ill conceived piece of garbage.
 
Erronius

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Interestingly enough, we still don't know why or how the legislation itself is a failure or a flop. I've been waiting for someone to go into details as to why, but as of now we've seen nothing besides broad sweeping statements and vague predictions of doom and gloom.

What I find sad is that people are using the website as proof that the PPACA itself is worthless when the state of the website has nothing to do with the realities within the PPACA itself. Maybe it is good legislation and maybe it isn't, but if you;'re going to malign the legislation then actually be critical of the legislation itself and don't try to associate one with the other as though they are inseparable.

But who am I kidding, go ahead and confirm your biases, LOL.
 
fanaskin

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I found this a little amusing
rrr_img_49384.jpg
 
Erronius

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fanaskin_sl said:
the heart of the law is forcing individual people pay for others in a half ass and retarded manner that's why they don't want it
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1) Why is it half-assed and retarded? Because you say it is?
2) We have a number of laws where we pay for other people, the PPACA isn't alone in that.
3) It seems to me that a lot of people "don't want it" more because of politics than anything to do with the actual law itself.


fanaskin_sl said:
and every time people explain they don't want to pay for chronic losers or why men should pay for woman's shit they don't want nor need democrats ironically go on a tirade about pulling up their bootstraps.
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But that's an eternal debate more and less, and when you consider that the GOP was up to its elbows trying to craft a health bill like this for decades it sounds a bit disingenuous to NOW come back and make this kind of complaint when before the Dems picked it up and tried to run with it the GOP was actually moving in this direction anyways.

PS: not changing this post now just because you edit more frequently than Boehner cries.
 
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