I gotta say, even though I currently abuse them like everyone else, I'm looking forward to all the games good super sticky minions being gone in one fell swoop.
Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
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Guest, did you like the last podcast notification?? Well here's the second one, and for the third podcast! Yep. This Thursday 8-8-24 at 7pm Central
Go here to check out his podcast thread for info on topics and links!Go into the FoH discord and find the Happy Time Fun Hour channel and give it a listen!
Ravishing
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Well if they don't change Knife Juggler then we can all look forward to saying goodbye to Reynad, he proclaimed on Value Town that he would quit Hearthstone if it isn't nerfed. Now obviously we all know he can be rather dramatic, but just using this as a point that MANY of the pros have spoken very loudly about Knife Juggler and I would expect he gets nerfed.
Owl hasn't been spoken of, from the vids I've watched, and might slip by, but I kinda think Owl is on the chopping block based on the latest cards released that can silence. I can totally see them making Owl a "Silence a Beast" card.
As Gavin said, Spellbreaker is fine and should probably be the only neutral global silence. Want to Silence my 4 mana Twilight Drake? OK, it'll cost you 4 mana.
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Why is arena a mess? Honest question, I'll probably even agree with you. I probably have really low standards that as long as I can get 5+ wins with a few classes(paladin, mage, priest, warlock), I'm pretty happy with arena.
Ravishing
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Although not directed at me, I think Arena is a mess simply because there is really only 1 legit strategy: tempo. Sure, maybe you get lucky and are able to put together an aggro deck or combo deck or some other constructed-like deck, but that's rare. You have the lucker dogs with 5 copies of Murloc Knight and Minibot, or the guy that gets Dr Boom, or even 2 Booms! It's way too RNG. Even the best Arena players will often go 3-3. You can view stats of the more renown Arena streamers here:Arena Streamer Leaderboard - Google ???
Then you factor in the rewards. Most people do Arena simply because it's 50 more gold than straight up buying packs and you have a chance to get gold+dust valued more than that 50. Other then that, it's a casual mode. I play it because it's low stress with the chance of getting a chunk of gold. Without that *chance* I'd certainly not play it.
Also there are no rankings to work toward and you can't use your golden cards.
The whole mode is just meh. You play it simply for that chance to expand your collection to use in Constructed. It's kinda dumb.
Arena would be a lot more fun if it was more similar to Sealed Deck: You open ~100 cards and have to make a 30 card deck from them. As it stands you view 90 cards but at 3 at a time without knowledge of future picks. If you are presented all 90 at once you can craft better decks and add more strategy to the game mode.
Then you factor in the rewards. Most people do Arena simply because it's 50 more gold than straight up buying packs and you have a chance to get gold+dust valued more than that 50. Other then that, it's a casual mode. I play it because it's low stress with the chance of getting a chunk of gold. Without that *chance* I'd certainly not play it.
Also there are no rankings to work toward and you can't use your golden cards.
The whole mode is just meh. You play it simply for that chance to expand your collection to use in Constructed. It's kinda dumb.
Arena would be a lot more fun if it was more similar to Sealed Deck: You open ~100 cards and have to make a 30 card deck from them. As it stands you view 90 cards but at 3 at a time without knowledge of future picks. If you are presented all 90 at once you can craft better decks and add more strategy to the game mode.
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That Arena leaderboard can be deceiving since for example Hafu boycotted the top 3 classes in arena (Mage Paladin Rogue) for quite a while.
My hope is that with Tempo Storm doing the sealed draft thing on their website Blizzard might finally get on board with it. A true sealed format thing would be great
My hope is that with Tempo Storm doing the sealed draft thing on their website Blizzard might finally get on board with it. A true sealed format thing would be great
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I don't think going 3-3 is a strike again arena. Even the best constructed players have shit games and down rank.
How are the rewards bad? Once you go past 4 wins, your gold(and dust) per game becomes much better than constructed. That's usually enough of a reward for me. That the rewards only benefit your constructed collection is a problem, I agree there.
Rankings? Meh. They were shit in constructed until given a material reward too. I definitely agree about usage of golden cards. Would also like arena wins to count towards golden hero.
A sealed mode does sound like it would be more fun and lead to more diversity. I'm kinda ok, for now, with tempo being king in arena. I've have a couple non-standard decks work out alright. Control/attrition mage usually works well. Aggro rogue is pretty good too.
How are the rewards bad? Once you go past 4 wins, your gold(and dust) per game becomes much better than constructed. That's usually enough of a reward for me. That the rewards only benefit your constructed collection is a problem, I agree there.
Rankings? Meh. They were shit in constructed until given a material reward too. I definitely agree about usage of golden cards. Would also like arena wins to count towards golden hero.
A sealed mode does sound like it would be more fun and lead to more diversity. I'm kinda ok, for now, with tempo being king in arena. I've have a couple non-standard decks work out alright. Control/attrition mage usually works well. Aggro rogue is pretty good too.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Don't get me wrong I enjoy some arenas myself, but its too lopsided in terms of RNG from the drafting and the card rarity shit. The classes get so far out of wack from each other it makes constructed look perfectly balanced. No goldens to show off your collection, no credit towards golden hero even though wins are plenty difficult to amass, and now you get a random pack reward instead of the choice you should have.
As the collection has grown the randomness of arena matches has snowballed out of control. In classic the good arena players with a solid draft could compete with most any opponent, now you meet the wrong guy with the wrong draw and its just a beatdown with no hope. Even though there were class imbalances in the earlier days it felt like arena did have a larger skill component than it does now.
Its fun because crazy unexpected shit happens, you see cards that no one touches in constructed ever, and you're gambling with that chance for big rewards. But its so damn RNG anymore in a game that already has too much RNG for most people's liking. I guess basically arena exacerbates all the problems of Hearthstone in general to a much bigger degree, yet offers little in the way of incentives to put up with it.
As the collection has grown the randomness of arena matches has snowballed out of control. In classic the good arena players with a solid draft could compete with most any opponent, now you meet the wrong guy with the wrong draw and its just a beatdown with no hope. Even though there were class imbalances in the earlier days it felt like arena did have a larger skill component than it does now.
Its fun because crazy unexpected shit happens, you see cards that no one touches in constructed ever, and you're gambling with that chance for big rewards. But its so damn RNG anymore in a game that already has too much RNG for most people's liking. I guess basically arena exacerbates all the problems of Hearthstone in general to a much bigger degree, yet offers little in the way of incentives to put up with it.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Well, other than being able to buy your next arena, but I'm not sure how many people consistently make seven wins to keep it going like that anymore. I'm sure morrow would have a lot of input but I'm guessing morrow has quit the game.
Morrow
Trakanon Raider
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If that leader board is true than I am one of the best arena players in the world. I hope they release it some day. I want all of teh glory. Just did a 12 win Paladin with 0 Consecrates, 0 Truesilvers, 0 Murloc Knights and 0 Coghammers/Musters etc. Just random shit. I find it hard to believe that the average win counts aren't higher, because mine sure are.
Edit: @Famm, no I haven't quit. I just don't play nearly as much. I still love arena. And I disagree that it is a huge risk. Practise and natural skill make a huge difference, else why would my gold count continue to rise every day when I play arena? Every once in a while I have a bad run, but overall I do consistently very well. So for me, it's worth it. I build my collection and not only that, but I GAIN gold now, because I am beyond infinite (plus you often get 180 gold for 7 wins nowadays, so that helps, although you can also get 150 gold for 8 wins, which is annoying). I can't even really play regular games though anymore, it drives me crazy. So when I have a Warrior/Shaman/Hunter quest, my gf does them for me (I don't mind playing Priest in constructed). The other classes I play in arena. Don't really play Warrior/Shaman/Hunter/Priest in arena anymore if I can avoid it, cos of course I want my best chance to win as many games as possible.
Derpa
Trakanon Raider
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Agreed. This is why I'm super interested in the team brawl on Saturday.....hoping it takes off in popularity
Morrow
Trakanon Raider
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Also re: Arena. Tempo is not the only strategy. The winning strategy is knowing and finding your deck's win condition, just like everything else. That's a big mistake a lot of people make, even players like Trump. You have to know your deck and make decisions accordingly, sometimes they go against your first instinct or are a bad choice for value, but they will win you the game. You have to take risks sometimes, but you take them when they weigh in your favor. My 12 win paladin deck with no epics and no really good stuff except for 1 Shielded Minibot and 3 Blessed Champions? I won most of my games with an Arcane Golem + Blessed Champion and going face a few turns before that to get my opponent within lethal range. I used Jeweled Scarab to pull out a victory multiple times. I took a risk and went face on my 12th game, knowing that next turn I had a good chance of drawing something that could help me do another 1 point of damage with my Scarab (I know scarab has a million different 3 mana cards for Paladin that can instantly do 1 damage or add 1+ damage). There are a lot of nuances most people don't understand. Sure, tempo is the main deal, but you won't get lots of 10+ wins just going tempo, you'll end up with bad decks that can't out tempo your opponent half the time. The real key is knowing/finding/creating your win condition.
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Won a game recently where my opponent kept pulling exactly what he needed to stay alive out of three consecutive Ethereal Conjurers. After that annoyance, he emotes a bunch and Renos at 4 life. I still end up winning in convincing fashion and it was very satisfying to have correctly navigated all of that.
Games like that won't happen in constructed. The other benefit is that I'm lazy and I don't like thinking about all the possible things my opponent my do next turn/2 turns/3 turns if I do this. That's important to do in constructed because the possible card pool is limited. Not as important in arena, just playing around some common cards that will royally fuck you up. That aspect is more enjoyable to me.
Games like that won't happen in constructed. The other benefit is that I'm lazy and I don't like thinking about all the possible things my opponent my do next turn/2 turns/3 turns if I do this. That's important to do in constructed because the possible card pool is limited. Not as important in arena, just playing around some common cards that will royally fuck you up. That aspect is more enjoyable to me.
Ravishing
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I typically start an Arena deck and it takes me 2 weeks to finish. I usually don't get 12 wins but my current deck is 11-2 right now as Priest. I have never got 12 with Priest yet so hoping I can win the last game (probably play it tonight).
Anyway, it's a fun as hell greedy *steal everything* deck:
2x Museum Curator
2x Holy Nova
1x Lightbomb
2x Entomb
2x Thoughtsteal
2x Mind Control
1xSylvanas
1xKel Thuzad
A bunch of random stuff to fill out curve. The 2nd Mind Control was a throwaway pick. All the options were ass and by this point I just went with the theme of the deck. The Novas and Lightbomb are the true studs here and my 2 losses were when I couldn't draw them.
The 2 Legendaries would make almost any deck a 12 win deck though... unless the curve is absolute garbage.
Anyway, it's a fun as hell greedy *steal everything* deck:
2x Museum Curator
2x Holy Nova
1x Lightbomb
2x Entomb
2x Thoughtsteal
2x Mind Control
1xSylvanas
1xKel Thuzad
A bunch of random stuff to fill out curve. The 2nd Mind Control was a throwaway pick. All the options were ass and by this point I just went with the theme of the deck. The Novas and Lightbomb are the true studs here and my 2 losses were when I couldn't draw them.
The 2 Legendaries would make almost any deck a 12 win deck though... unless the curve is absolute garbage.
Ravishing
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If you look at that spreadsheet you need to compare apples to apples and not just look at the numbers at the top.
Firstly, it's only showing Arena runs that have been streamed. Many streamers will have bad runs because they let viewers draft for them or they pick a variety of classes to keep it interesting.
Secondly, there is a breakdown by class and if you exclude all the classes you avoid then you're looking at 8+ win average by this spreadsheet.
I don't know if you're claiming to be the absolute best but it sounds like you are with this statement:
Until you show proof of your games beyond just text, it'll be hard to believe that your averages are so much higher than the 8+ shown.
Oh and if you look at LOE only then it's closer to 9 win average for the best streamers.
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Kripp made a video a few weeks ago about how Fierce Monkey and Obsidian Destroyer fixed warrior in arena. I know I only gave it a couple shitty runs, but it still feels like the class is too weapon dependent. Specifically, fiery war axe and death's bite.
I won games where I could coin monkey on turn 2 followed by another monkey, or get a destroyer out on turn 7 and the board was still contested. Still would have liked some axes.
I won games where I could coin monkey on turn 2 followed by another monkey, or get a destroyer out on turn 7 and the board was still contested. Still would have liked some axes.
