Hearthstone

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Amzin

Amzin

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,917
361
This is more of a design/balance question than really relevant, but why do game designers shy away from using larger numbers as a base for life/damage/costs/etc.? For example, just multiply everything in Hearthstone by 10, so you start with 300 life, Pyro does 100 damage, costs 80 mana, etc. Then you can make much finer adjustments. As it is now, 1 mana or damage is the difference between a broken card or a garbage card. If you could reduce damage by 0.5 (5 with bigger number system) or up mana by half a point, you could balance things much better.

Hearthstone just strikes me as a game with numbers way too small for their own good. They copied ideas from physical CCGs that don't really need to be copied for online-only play, and using a more versatile, bigger number set is something they really should consider while it's still technically in beta.
 
N

Northerner

N00b
921
9
Eh, I think the core problem with Mages (in as much as there is one) is either their hero ability or their number of freezing spells. Eliminate Nova/Lance and/or change the 1 damage ping to 1 spell power this turn or something similar. The sheer quantity of freezes is the problem on the one side (playing to delay into nuke-fest or giants-drop) and the massive utility of a one ping (anti-bubble, early killer, poly-synergy, etc etc) is perhaps too much. By far I see the plethora of freezes being the trouble.

Then again, it isn't like Mages are a billion times better than the other classes. A tweak here and there would have been enough I think.
 
Elerion

Elerion

N00b
735
46
Amzin_sl said:
This is more of a design/balance question than really relevant, but why do game designers shy away from using larger numbers as a base for life/damage/costs/etc.? For example, just multiply everything in Hearthstone by 10, so you start with 300 life, Pyro does 100 damage, costs 80 mana, etc. Then you can make much finer adjustments. As it is now, 1 mana or damage is the difference between a broken card or a garbage card. If you could reduce damage by 0.5 (5 with bigger number system) or up mana by half a point, you could balance things much better.

Hearthstone just strikes me as a game with numbers way too small for their own good. They copied ideas from physical CCGs that don't really need to be copied for online-only play, and using a more versatile, bigger number set is something they really should consider while it's still technically in beta.
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10x larger numbers would be a massive deterrant for people who aren't Good At Maths, and needlessly complicate it for everyone else.

I'm pretty good at doing calculations in my head, but even I would have to think for a bit about whether my 23 damage nuke, my 28/53 creature and my 43/55 creature would be able to kill his 39/93 taunter and still leave my creatures out of trade range of his 8 damage hero ability and 7/14 creature.

It's quite a bit easier to figure out if a 2 damage nuke, 3/5 creature and 4/5 creature can kill a 4/9 taunter and still survive a 1 damage hero ability and a 1/1 dork.

CCG numbers aren't small because there's no room to print large numbers on cards, they're small because it's supposed to be a tactical game, not a math problem.
 
Ryoz

Ryoz

<Donor>
845
194
Time will tell. This is beta after all. Saying that you created a Mage counter deck and won is hardly proof of a broken class. You also can't compare all sweeps equally... Stalls are not the same as hero dmg or a card draw.
 
Amzin

Amzin

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,917
361
Elerion_sl said:
10x larger numbers would be a massive deterrant for people who aren't Good At Maths, and needlessly complicate it for everyone else.

I'm pretty good at doing calculations in my head, but even I would have to think for a bit about whether my 23 damage nuke, my 28/53 creature and my 43/55 creature would be able to kill his 39/93 taunter and still leave my creatures out of trade range of his 8 damage hero ability and 7/14 creature.

It's quite a bit easier to figure out if a 2 damage nuke, 3/5 creature and 4/5 creature can kill a 4/9 taunter and still survive a 1 damage hero ability and a 1/1 dork.

CCG numbers aren't small because there's no room to print large numbers on cards, they're small because it's supposed to be a tactical game, not a math problem.
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I was mainly considering it for 'half-points', I.E. make Cone of Cold 35 mana instead of 30 mana or 40 mana. You could do the same thing with the current numbers and just allow 0.5 costs, damages, etc. and people could grasp it easily, it would just be way messier to read.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,220
2,366
Wish they'd talk about fixing, or fix the fucking bugs though. I lost 2 games I think it was yesterday to bugs, one to Argus only buffing one mob(took my chance and dropped it on one side since I knew in the middle would be bugged, chose wrong side and it buffed the mob on the otherside only). Then later I bounce one of my mobs back to my hand to play it again later, guy unloads almost all his hand on the board, I'm about to flamestrike and... nope not this card, nope still not this card, come on game, and eventually have to redrop the mob cause I can't get the flamestrike to show up and time is running out, and lose next turn.
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Guess who's getting dust refunded!

I am happy about it; Mage freeze decks were too prevalent and too not fun. I'm not sure this even kills the freeze deck. Once you reach mid game the mage has no problem maintaining the mana to stall for the win. I don't remember them popping down to 0 too often while running freeze.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

Trakanon Raider
3,053
133
Well the mage nerf went life within the last hour. The only upside, for me, was my Golden Cone of Cold disenchanted for 400 Dust. On a whim I spent my gold on a pack and opened Malygos. Really tempted to DE him and King Mulka and grab Sylvanas. Malygos is REALLY situational and King Mulka is simply situational while Sylvanas can be used in pretty much every deck. Rag is another option but I still like the Sylvanas route I think.
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
Yeah, it would be nice if that half gold blizzard I got from an arena run a few weeks ago was really gold.

And I agree sylvanas can go in just about every deck, moreso than rag or thalnos even.
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,341
948
What the fuck. 1 gig for 3 card changes and a bug fix.

I agree about them not properly addressing freeze. I said it earlier, there's just far too much freeze already, specially for a mere basic set. Christ what'll happen in a few more? There are so many easy ways to fix freeze it's not even funny. Hell, Hearthstone loves RNG so much, make it so freeze gives a 50% chance to prevent an attack, so when your turn starts (or during the actual attack), everything that was hit by Nova/Blizz/Cone rolls a 50/50 dice and 2 of your minions can attack and the other 2 can't this turn. Or a mini silence mechanic to add more ways to remove freeze, or freeze merely halving the damage the minions do next turn etc etc etc etc.
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Sylvanas can be silenced though, Rag always deals 8 damage. He feels stronger in everything but the rushiest of decks.

Mr. MorrowGirl_sl said:
Or a mini silence mechanic to add more ways to remove freeze, or freeze merely halving the damage the minions do next turn etc etc etc etc.
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I don't think that's a good solution since there is for the most part only one hero that deals freeze.
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,341
948
The Ancient_sl said:
Sylvanas can be silenced though, Rag always deals 8 damage. He feels stronger in everything but the rushiest of decks.



I don't think that's a good solution since there is for the most part only one hero that deals freeze.
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It'd do other stuff as well. Just not a full silence. Like it could break freeze, it could break stealth, DS, it could break a minion's ability to receive buffs (even blocking Blood Imp or whatever), etc and or a variation of those, while leaving attack/hp buffs.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

Trakanon Raider
3,053
133
Pulled the trigger. Disenchanted my Malygos, a Golden Cobra, Farsight, and Unleash the Hounds for Sylvanas.

I'm one of those funny collector types. I HATE disenchanting cards that I don't have extras of. I'm the type of person who is always thinking "this card is useless to me now but someday...". Also I hate bad trades and Hearthstone is only bad trades (i.e. Disenchant 4 Legendary Cards in exchange for the ability to craft 1 of them).
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,341
948
Angelwatch_sl said:
Pulled the trigger. Disenchanted my Malygos, a Golden Cobra, Farsight, and Unleash the Hounds for Sylvanas.

I'm one of those funny collector types. I HATE disenchanting cards that I don't have extras of. I'm the type of person who is always thinking "this card is useless to me now but someday...". Also I hate bad trades and Hearthstone is only bad trades (i.e. Disenchant 4 Legendary Cards in exchange for the ability to craft 1 of them).
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Yeah I have 2 Ysera and I refuse to DE the 2nd because I can't bare the idea of such a bad trade. I'll wait till they add more methods to get rid of cards or increase the dust amount or nothing, I just can't bring myself to do it.
 
Necrath Evilcraft

Necrath Evilcraft

Golden Knight of the Realm
576
146
Anyone having any issues? im in an arena match and my opponents turn has been 5-7 minutes without a timer kicking in. Any idea what's going on?

Edit: Guess it doesn't matter I quit and reloaded to see i had prizes and that I was dead in the arena. Whatever blizzard.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

Trakanon Raider
3,053
133
Necrath Evilcraft_sl said:
Anyone having any issues? im in an arena match and my opponents turn has been 5-7 minutes without a timer kicking in. Any idea what's going on?

Edit: Guess it doesn't matter I quit and reloaded to see i had prizes and that I was dead in the arena. Whatever blizzard.
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Not outside of the normal ones. Minions are STILL jumping all over the place even after 2 patches...
 
Mures

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
4,014
511
I've noticed with minion jumping it happens a LOT more when placing minions too quickly, I always try to make sure to make sure a card is all the way in play before playing the next.
 
Morrow

Morrow

Trakanon Raider
3,341
948
mures_sl said:
I've noticed with minion jumping it happens a LOT more when placing minions too quickly, I always try to make sure to make sure a card is all the way in play before playing the next.
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Definitely, but it does happen regardless. I started doing the same thing, waited a good 5 seconds after a minion drop, then dropped my Sunfury to purposefully only give 1 minion taunt so the other couldn't be attacked, bam she flipped from the far right into the middle and gave them both taunt. FAIL.
 
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