Hearthstone

slippery · Apr 4, 2017

This is the first expansion I'm not super hype over any specific deck. I think a lot of them look cool enough. I'll open either 140 or 200 packs (50 preorder, the 5 from login/brawl, I have like 2900 gold, and I'll buy either 60 or 120 most likely) and see what I get then figure out what to play. I have 13k dust, and golden everything of the stuff going to hall of fame, but I'm only going to craft golden stuff and since I'm less sure about this expansion than any previous ones I'll wait a bit to do anything with it.

I'm also 46 wins till Golden Priest, which is my last class to get golden. But it's been like that pretty much the entire last expansion, so meh.

Ravishing · Apr 4, 2017

Pyros said:
The last good neutral healing card, antique healbot, was used by a fairly wide variety of classes and decks(really almost everything but aggro decks). Everything since has been pretty garbage in comparison so not used as much, other than Reno but that required specific deck building which naturally favored some classes over others I think.

There's a bunch of taunt cards to help with aggro though, like those creepers that have shit stats but gain a bunch of attack during the opponent turn, those looks kinda nice to have. I only looked at the cards vaguely since I don't play but I noticed a few big taunters with low cost. That said aggro should still remain dominant on the ladder cause that's always going to be the case unless you make control vastly superior, just cause winning or losing faster is still better to climb ranks.

Healbot shored up some classes like Rogue, Mage, Warlock. But you still didn't see it in basically any other class.

Rogue certainly could use another healbot and Warlock always wants a good neutral heal. It's good to have a change I think. Maybe I'll feel differently in a month.

LiquidDeath · Apr 4, 2017

It isn't about neutral heals. I specifically talked about a class heal. I'm glad Reno is going, and especially glad Emperor is going, but not giving classes ways to deal with aggro besides shitty taunt minions is a big problem. The game is better with Priest and Warlock control being viable and greedy to compete with midrange. They have to have some kind of chance against aggro, though, or they'll be gone and we'll just see a bunch of control warrior and stupid fucking broken-ass jade druid.

Ravishing · Apr 4, 2017

LiquidDeath said:
It isn't about neutral heals. I specifically talked about a class heal. I'm glad Reno is going, and especially glad Emperor is going, but not giving classes ways to deal with aggro besides shitty taunt minions is a big problem. The game is better with Priest and Warlock control being viable and greedy to compete with midrange. They have to have some kind of chance against aggro, though, or they'll be gone and we'll just see a bunch of control warrior and stupid fucking broken-ass jade druid.

Oh... which classes are you talking about then? Every control class has a new heal except warlock & paladin.

Warrior: 1 mana gain 5 armor
Priest: 1 mana, heal minion & hero for 5
Druid: 1 mana, buff minion & gain armor
Shaman: deal 4, heal 4, also a taunt + heal 3 drop

Paladin already has tons of healing so I guess nothing new for them

Not saying any of these are super-OP but most of these classes already have decent healing options to begin with.

zzeris · Apr 4, 2017

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of zero neutral healing with Hunter looking solid, discard lock looking powerful as fuck, shammy murloc, and old pirate warrior. There will be some crazy murloc decks this expansion.

Ravishing · Apr 4, 2017

zzeris said:
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of zero neutral healing with Hunter looking solid, discard lock looking powerful as fuck, shammy murloc, and old pirate warrior. There will be some crazy murloc decks this expansion.

More I look at Hunter the more I think it'll be too inconsistent or slow even. Will take a while before an optimized deck is built. I think most people are loading up 15+ 1-drops but that's going to be terrible vs all the huge taunts. If you go the slow route then completing quest probably won't happen most of the time.

Only thing giving me hope is the fact they get Stampede and can maybe OTK with raptors / Rhino / hyena.

But think about.. Hunter won't play a minion on turn 1, that's so huge. Granted, most classes will play a quest turn 1, but for an aggro deck to miss their 1 drop is huge. That alone makes me think Hunter really won't be much threat, and by turn 2 or 3 they are pretty much out of gas, needing to hope for their 5 drop to refill.

Warlock on the other hand is more concerning for me because they have all this discard synergy and huge minions that work with the deck, plus discardlock is already seeing some play. But Hunter is a natural counter to warlock so there's that....

Honestly this expansion has me more excited than any in the past simply because we finally see a whole lot less RNG fuckery and I do think there is a bit of creativity with these cards. More decision making and less slam & go. However, I am concerned about seeing tempo-stone again or whoever-finishes-quest-first-wins-stone.

I know aggro ALWAYS exists, I expect it will exist, but I also expect the meta to slow down a bit. Killing Doomsayer turn 2 and losing by turn 5 is ridiculous bullshit meta and I think we're going to slow down just a tad from that.

zzeris · Apr 4, 2017

Ravishing said:
More I look at Hunter the more I think it'll be too inconsistent or slow even. Will take a while before an optimized deck is built. I think most people are loading up 15+ 1-drops but that's going to be terrible vs all the huge taunts. If you go the slow route then completing quest probably won't happen most of the time.

Only thing giving me hope is the fact they get Stampede and can maybe OTK with raptors / Rhino / hyena.

But think about.. Hunter won't play a minion on turn 1, that's so huge. Granted, most classes will play a quest turn 1, but for an aggro deck to miss their 1 drop is huge. That alone makes me think Hunter really won't be much threat, and by turn 2 or 3 they are pretty much out of gas, needing to hope for their 5 drop to refill.

Warlock on the other hand is more concerning for me because they have all this discard synergy and huge minions that work with the deck, plus discardlock is already seeing some play. But Hunter is a natural counter to warlock so there's that....

Honestly this expansion has me more excited than any in the past simply because we finally see a whole lot less RNG fuckery and I do think there is a bit of creativity with these cards. More decision making and less slam & go. However, I am concerned about seeing tempo-stone again or whoever-finishes-quest-first-wins-stone.

I know aggro ALWAYS exists, I expect it will exist, but I also expect the meta to slow down a bit. Killing Doomsayer turn 2 and losing by turn 5 is ridiculous bullshit meta and I think we're going to slow down just a tad from that.

I was going to mention your concern earlier myself. I'm also afraid this expansion will turn into a variation of tempostone where whoever gets their class quest off first, wins the game. On hunter, I agree that many people will just dump fifteen 1 drops and hope to win(bad idea). It probably will end up being a solid midrange choice that tempos to the point the hero power gets the win. So, not too bad.

Lock is a huge worry. They can make two powerful decks and the discard version looks amazingly powerful. I hope you are right because I'm excited too. The class quests were a fantastic idea. What a great way to mold where you want the class to go for a while. I just hope we are wrong about tempo-stone.

I'm not buying as much as crazy ass slippery but I've got 2k in dust, 3k in gold, and have already bought the 50 pack. I honestly only want the quests, Hemet, and a few other cards early. I'm going to ignore priest, pally, rogue, mage, and hunter early to ensure I have a discard lock, Hemet deck, murloc and elemental shammy, and try to make a taunt warrior. That will probably keep me busy for at least the next month or two.

Mahes · Apr 4, 2017

So tomorrow is the gold bordered card, but you cannot use it yet. They should have just rewarded that on first day of release. Packs I kind of understand but a single card could have been given on the 7th.

I am looking forward to trying out many different deck types. Will have plenty to dust as I do not care about the wild format. With 70+ packs and 2k dust already, I should be able to get a few of the legendaries I want.

TJT · Apr 4, 2017

Discard lock does look pretty fun. And I don't even have Kara! I will be D/Eing all the cards that can't be used in Standard though. Which is a fucking lot now.

Gavinmad · Apr 4, 2017

Ravishing said:
Healbot shored up some classes like Rogue, Mage, Warlock. But you still didn't see it in basically any other class.

Ok so what you're saying is that you never played Hearthstone before standard came out.

Ravishing · Apr 4, 2017

Gavinmad said:
Ok so what you're saying is that you never played Hearthstone before standard came out.

I think it's what you're saying

LiquidDeath · Apr 4, 2017

Ravishing said:
Oh... which classes are you talking about then? Every control class has a new heal except warlock & paladin.

Warrior: 1 mana gain 5 armor
Priest: 1 mana, heal minion & hero for 5
Druid: 1 mana, buff minion & gain armor
Shaman: deal 4, heal 4, also a taunt + heal 3 drop

Paladin already has tons of healing so I guess nothing new for them

Not saying any of these are super-OP but most of these classes already have decent healing options to begin with.

Sooooo exactly what I said? The only class that got a heal that will be played is Druid. Warlock got nothing and Priest got a heal that most likely won't make a goddamn difference against aggro. Which minions do zoolock and pirate warrior leave on the board for more than a turn that they care has full health or not?

We're talking about legitimate threats to aggro decks here, not just cards they printed that heal.

Famm · Apr 4, 2017

I think they are on record saying they are reluctant to print any more neutral heals. You can disagree with that decision, but its not very surprising actually.

Famm · Apr 4, 2017

LiquidDeath said:
Sooooo exactly what I said? The only class that got a heal that will be played is Druid. Warlock got nothing and Priest got a heal that most likely won't make a goddamn difference against aggro. Which minions do zoolock and pirate warrior leave on the board for more than a turn that they care has full health or not?

We're talking about legitimate threats to aggro decks here, not just cards they printed that heal.

He's mentioned the taunts more than once. There are some promising looking anti aggro tech cards out there. I personally think taunt warrior might finally see its time with this set. Its the only quest that looks very viable for standard too. Plenty of taunts, and its an archetype that might actually be able to afford to just waste turn one playing the quest spell. Also Sulfuras is cheap and pretty strong looking.

TJT · Apr 4, 2017

Famm said:
I think they are on record saying they are reluctant to print any more neutral heals. You can disagree with that decision, but its not very surprising actually.

Considering the recurring issue of powerful neutral cards making their way into many many decks. I get it. Kinda shitty but it makes sense as a design ptifall they can't seem to figure out how to avoid.

drtyrm · Apr 4, 2017

LiquidDeath said:
The only class that got a heal that will be played is Druid.

Some top level insight on the upcoming meta.

zzeris · Apr 4, 2017

LiquidDeath said:
Sooooo exactly what I said? The only class that got a heal that will be played is Druid. Warlock got nothing and Priest got a heal that most likely won't make a goddamn difference against aggro. Which minions do zoolock and pirate warrior leave on the board for more than a turn that they care has full health or not?

We're talking about legitimate threats to aggro decks here, not just cards they printed that heal.

Well, he and you already mentioned priest, pally, shammy, druid, war all have decent healing options already. I don't think they want the others to get a powerful heal and I really agree with them. Even without conceal, rogue can get some big shit fast. No one wants discard lock to get a heal and and removing the penalty for their hero power is bad. I have no problem with changing things up for lock for a while. Mage being able to timewalk on top of their other slowdown methods is plenty. Hunter probably wouldn't even use. Everyone else is fine.

Edit- on another note, quests got me playing dragon priest again for a day. That deck is so damn powerful and a good reason I got golden early last month. I don't see anything that will convince me to play mage this expansion but should get both druid and war to golden with the new cards. Rogue also isn't my usual deck choice but at least moving my goldens up some.

Kuro · Apr 4, 2017

Next level stratz is obviously quest Hunter... Fatigue. Only play enough 1 drops to complete the quest, then fill your deck with raptors and wait your opponent out. Obvious best deck for rank 23 play

chthonic-anemos · Apr 4, 2017

If taunt warrior is any good then Grimy Gadgeteer - Hearthstone Cards might have a spot on the wall.

Ravishing · Apr 5, 2017

Mahes said:
So tomorrow is the gold bordered card, but you cannot use it yet. They should have just rewarded that on first day of release. Packs I kind of understand but a single card could have been given on the 7th.

I am looking forward to trying out many different deck types. Will have plenty to dust as I do not care about the wild format. With 70+ packs and 2k dust already, I should be able to get a few of the legendaries I want.

I put it in my deck, dont need to wait

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