Indiana...Religious Freedom eh? sigh

Faltigoth · Mar 30, 2015

hodj_sl said:
The religious right have been on a tear trying to put themselves up on the cross as the persecuted people in our society, while they are the ones doing all the actual persecution.

This is a great point, and you see it reinforced all the time in conservative media outlets. It is so farcical I can't believe it; they truly operate on the principle of, 'if you tell lies enough times and with enough conviction, people will believe'.

OVer 80% of the USA is Christian; Christians sit in nearly every major and minor elected position, control almost every business in the country. Yet THEY are under assault? It is lunacy...yet lunacy that an appalling number of people believe, because they are being told it over and over and over. It is maddening and more than a little dangerous.

Palum · Mar 30, 2015

Gavinmad_sl said:
Uh, no, these laws will never be used to protect terrorists or sharia law. Religious freedoms do not give you the freedom to interfere with the rights of others, nor does it protect your ability to engage in illegal conspiracy.

These laws dwell in a legal and moral grey area which is why they are able to slip through in the first place.

What I don't get is how this is not Jim Crow mk 2. I'm sure you could find someone who justified segregation with religion. What's the difference? I'm not serving you black/gay folks because of my religion! Justification really doesn't matter sometimes, just the net effects.

Royal · Mar 30, 2015

I could definitely see something like a Muslim version of the Orthodox Jewish courts being sheltered by these laws.

hodj · Mar 30, 2015

Palum_sl said:
What I don't get is how this is not Jim Crow mk 2. I'm sure you could find someone who justified segregation with religion. What's the difference? I'm not serving you black/gay folks because of my religion! Justification really doesn't matter sometimes, just the net effects.

The entire race issue began in religion, actually. The entire support of racism is a result of religious pseudo science. Pre Adamite vs Degenerative theory and all that.

Great book on the topic is "The Myth of Race" by Robert Wald Sussman, published by Harvard's publishing arm. Really goes into how the Eurocentric racist world views were born in the crux of the Spanish inquisitions and then permeated out from there. The entire debate for the first 3-400 years was centered on whether "lesser" races were created in a separate creation event before Adam, or whether they were the result of degeneration of fundamental traits or characteristics from the lineages descending from Adam as a result of the Flood.

Christian mythologists of today still hold strongly to degenerative views. They blame all genetic variation on "Degeneration of the genome" caused by the global flood.

My capstone thesis for my final anthropology class was on this topic.

wormie · Mar 30, 2015

The curse of ham is a gift that keeps on giving. I remember my rabbi trying to force that shit onto the class. People laughed at his face. Glad my yeshiva was mostly heathens like me forced there by retarded, public school terrified parents.

Royal · Mar 30, 2015

The church I attended when I was a kid ultimately went through a minor split over the whole curse of ham nonsense.

Qhue · Mar 30, 2015

I was very amused by the photos taken at the private invitation-only signing ceremony for the Indiana law. Not only were many blatant anti-gay 'stone em all' types in attendance (on account of having partially authored the bill...) but the Governor's office refused to identify people in the photo when prompted by the local paper.

Of course the internet and social media being what it is it didn't take too long for people to ID most of the faces in the photo. The whole scenario oozes PR stupidity on a near unprecedented level. You score points with people whom you don't need to score points with in the first place at the cost of alienating a whole host of other interests including business and THEN try and hide it? The political calculus just does not make sense.

Palum · Mar 30, 2015

This law and similar ones can only get better from a drama perspective. Religion is doubling down on stupid. MJpopcorn.gif

Royal · Mar 30, 2015

They've been simultaneously infuriated by the loss of same sex marriage bans and emboldened by the Hobby Lobby ruling.

Arative · Mar 30, 2015

Qhue_sl said:
I was very amused by the photos taken at the private invitation-only signing ceremony for the Indiana law. Not only were many blatant anti-gay 'stone em all' types in attendance (on account of having partially authored the bill...) but the Governor's office refused to identify people in the photo when prompted by the local paper.

Of course the internet and social media being what it is it didn't take too long for people to ID most of the faces in the photo. The whole scenario oozes PR stupidity on a near unprecedented level. You score points with people whom you don't need to score points with in the first place at the cost of alienating a whole host of other interests including business and THEN try and hide it? The political calculus just does not make sense.

It makes sense in that Pence is probably going to make a run the for the Presidency, so he needs the religious right to make it through the primaries, where he can scream, see I hate them gays as much as you, now vote for me!!!

AngryGerbil · Mar 30, 2015

I miss Hitchens.

Gavinmad · Mar 30, 2015

Connecticut governor issued an executive order today banning all state funded travel to Indiana. Seems largely symbolic but people sure are keeping the pressure on.

chaos · Mar 30, 2015

Yeah maybe I'm just getting old and salty but I doubt they will walk it back. They will probably just ride out the news cycle then go on about their business once it dies down.

spronk · Mar 30, 2015

so with the law could you open a shop and put up a sign saying no christians allowed

cuz i'd do that for a day just so i could get internet and fox news famous

Palum · Mar 30, 2015

spronk_sl said:
so with the law could you open a shop and put up a sign saying no christians allowed

cuz i'd do that for a day just so i could get internet and fox news famous

Only with 'firmly held religious beliefs' though, so you'd have to really fucking mean it, I swear to Christ, or else it's JUST NOT FAIR!

Malakriss · Mar 30, 2015

You'd have to be a member of the Islamic State of Indiana can Suckit before you can discriminate against Christians.

Alexzander · Mar 30, 2015

Nah, just claim to be a Satanist.

Kedwyn · Mar 30, 2015

So what is it about gays that pisses people off so much? If you want to discriminate against sinners why would you leave out all the divorced people or people having sex out of wedlock, people that diddle kids etc? What is it about the Mo's that flips their pea pods so badly that they want to treat them like segregated blacks?

Seriously, some of these ass holes would defend their kid fucking preacher over some homo and I can't figure it out.

Malinatar · Mar 30, 2015

Big Phoenix · Mar 31, 2015

Malinatar_sl said:

Obviously you havent seen the current SJW crusade going on.

Indiana...Religious Freedom eh? *sigh*

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Indiana...Religious Freedom eh? sigh