Justice for Zimmerman

Cad · Jul 4, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
Stop descending into gun-cock-worship dipshittery and hair splitting. Are you seriously confused about what the term "non-lethal" implies in the context of firearms versus other weapons? Do we really need to cover the fact that you can use a tree branch as a weapon and successfully kill someone with it whether it's pointy or not?

The use of force was excessive, but not murderous. With a less powerful weapon the application would have been less powerful and quite possibly not resulted in a killing. But the application of that force did result in a killing, and that's usually considered some form of manslaughter.

You're ignoring the self defense. Self defense is a defense to all types of homicide.

Chukzombi · Jul 4, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Taken from Liam?

Or Taken 2?

i guess you can call it taken 1.5 since it happened between the first and second movie.

Tanoomba · Jul 4, 2013

Maester Chuk_sl said:
if you just fall and your head hits the pavement, you should head to the hospital right away and get that shit looked at. look at liam neesons wife. girl took a tumble, hit her head, didnt do anything about it and look what happened. she was taken from liam.

Interesting, then, that Zimmerman himself refused three times to go to the hospital after the incident was over.

Cad · Jul 4, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
Interesting, then, that Zimmerman himself refused three times to go to the hospital after the incident was over.

The actual severity of the injuries is immaterial, its the reasonable fear for your life or life threatening injuries that matters.

Araysar · Jul 4, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
By that logic

Stop pretending that your arguments have anything to do with logic.

Chukzombi · Jul 4, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
Interesting, then, that Zimmerman himself refused three times to go to the hospital after the incident was over.

yeah and? so because i know better and think that shit could be serious if not looked at does it mean everyone else thinks so? again liam neeson's wife DIED because she took a bump on the head and did nothing. zimmerman was rolling the dice by not getting checked out. you dont always die from head injuries, but you have to be kidding yourself if you think its nothing to worry about.

Tanoomba · Jul 4, 2013

Jais_sl said:
90% of Tanoomba's posts are "might", "may not have" and "I believe."

Ummm... isn't that what formulates a discussion?
We could just copy-and-paste what's on Wikipedia and the News sites, but that would get pretty boring pretty quick.

If you disagree with a suggestion of mine, tell me why. I won't shit on you for disagreeing, but I will shit on you for being an asshole and not actually making a point.

ZyyzYzzy · Jul 4, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
By that logic, if someone got into a fight and got punched in the face, he could consider the other person as "trying to kill him". The face is above the neck, after all. He could be knocked unconscious and smack his head on something on the way down. He could suffer a concussion or permanent brain injury. Could he then justifiably produce a gun and shoot the other person to prevent these possible life-endangering outcomes?

Besides, you're ignoring that Zimmerman didn't use his gun to stop the beating. He used it because Martin was going for it. If Zimmerman himself didn't consider the fight life-threatening until the gun came into the picture, why make that assumption for him?

So you're arguing he stopped himself from getting shot from his attacker. Someone smashing your head and then going for your gun wouldn't make you fear for your life? He was carrying a gun legally mind you.

For your first part, someone hitting another person in the head who didn't provoke them, a d getting shit and killed could easily be self defense and be seen as that by the law.

iannis · Jul 4, 2013

Less lethal is perfectly fine with me, and I'll use that instead. It's a more specific, better description. It doesn't change the fact you could fairly argue manslaughter given the circumstances and you could fairly argue against it given the circumstances as well.

Edit: removed the maybe.

Jais · Jul 4, 2013

Your assumptions = discussion, everyone elses assumptions = racism. Got it.

Chukzombi · Jul 4, 2013

there are things that are up for discussion and then there are things that are hard facts.
Fact: TM had GZ on the ground and was on top of him bashing his head on the concrete.
Fact: GZ was screaming for help multiple times during the beating
Fact, GZ pulled his gun and shot the almost-man who was beating him.

those are the facts and those facts are very suitable for a self defense defense.

ZyyzYzzy · Jul 4, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
Ummm... isn't that what formulates a discussion?
We could just copy-and-paste what's on Wikipedia and the News sites, but that would get pretty boring pretty quick.

If you disagree with a suggestion of mine, tell me why. I won't shit on you for disagreeing, but I will shit on you for being an asshole and not actually making a point.

Hey dumbass everyone who disagrees with your suggestions and arguments do explain why. You just are so fucking stubborn and closed minded you take everything as an attack.

Butthurt · Jul 4, 2013

Cad_sl said:
The actual severity of the injuries is immaterial, its the reasonable fear for your life or life threatening injuries that matters.

This right here. If the state can't disprove this, then everything else is irrelevant.

zombiewizardhawk · Jul 4, 2013

Iannis_sl said:
Shit dude, pepper spray would work even better than a gun against someone that's right on top of you. A small knife would work better than a gun. If you want to think about the actual physics of it, then think about the actual physics of it.

So a few quick knife shots to the liver and all his other organs that could have resulted in death too would somehow leave him not on trial here? I know the first thing i'd do with pepperspray in a brawl is spray it at someone on top of me so I can fuck myself up right along with him too!

iannis · Jul 4, 2013

Yeah, and it's that reasonable fear for your life which would hitch me up.

Obviously you don't bring a knife to a gunfight unless you want to die. But if you bring a gun to a fistfight and someone does die... who bears the responsbility for that?

Practically I don't personally think he's guilty of it either -- but I can see a place where reasonable people would disagree.

Arbitrary · Jul 4, 2013

If you weren't the guy that started the fight and the way it's going you are getting your head smashed into the fucking ground why do you bear any responsibility at all for having been carrying a firearm that day and using it to potentially save your life?

Jais · Jul 4, 2013

Forgive my ignorance here, had Zimmerman drawn his weapon before or after Martin went for it?

Chukzombi · Jul 4, 2013

the thing is nobody disagreed. only when it went public and it became a racial issue and the president said he looked like his what if son did the special prosecutor jump in and charge the dude with 2nd degree murder. i doubt she even looked at the actual evidence either. which is probably why the local PD are raw about the whole thing.

Chukzombi · Jul 4, 2013

Jais_sl said:
Forgive my ignorance here, had Zimmerman drawn his weapon before or after Martin went for it?

it was holstered until he TM started beating GZ into the pavement. if he did so any time before, then there wouldnt be grass stains on GZ's back or bruises on TM's knuckles.

Tanoomba · Jul 4, 2013

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
So you're arguing he stopped himself from getting shot from his attacker. Someone smashing your head and then going for your gun wouldn't make you fear for your life? He was carrying a gun legally mind you.

How long was he getting beaten for? How many seconds did people hear him calling for help? Was it, like, 40 seconds or something?
Zimmerman himself did not consider this beating life-threatening, or he would have acted on it and used his gun to defend himself.
When Martin saw the gun and made a direct threat to his life, then Zimmerman realized his life actually was in danger. They then struggled over the gun, Zimmerman managed to get it and shoot Martin.

Isn't this Zimmerman's version of events? I'm not making any of this up.

Jais_sl said:
Your assumptions = discussion, everyone elses assumptions = racism. Got it.

Let me make this more clear for you:
Racism = Racism.

Did you get that? Would you like me to put it on a flashcard for you?
Sorry if I'm getting snippy, but this childish behavior is getting pretty annoying.

Maester Chuk_sl said:
there are things that are up for discussion and then there are things that are hard facts.
Fact: TM had GZ on the ground and was on top of him bashing his head on the concrete.
Fact: GZ was screaming for help multiple times during the beating
Fact, GZ pulled his gun and shot the almost-man who was beating him.

those are the facts and those facts are very suitable for a self defense defense.

Those facts happened, sure, but the way you present them makes the strong implication that GZ pulled his gun and shot TMbecausehe "was on top of him bashing his head on the concrete". According to Zimmerman himself, that was not the case. Are you telling me we should dismiss Zimmerman's own story because it might hurt his case?

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
Hey dumbass everyone who disagrees with your suggestions and arguments do explain why. You just are so fucking stubborn and closed minded you take everything as an attack.

How many posts in a row have you made now without making a single point?
Everyone's arguing that Zimmerman felt his life was in danger because he had his head hit against concrete. Zimmerman's version of the story says it was only Martin's trying to grab his gun that forced him to shoot him. Therefore, the gun he was carrying may have played a larger role in the shooting than the beating he was receiving. Would anybody like to maturely discuss this without resorting to childish mocking and changing the subject?

Jesus, I've taught 2nd graders that exhibited more maturity than this.

Justice for Zimmerman

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