Justice for Zimmerman

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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Vandyn_sl said:
Doesn't SYG basically mean you don't have to retreat in the fact of the threat? So even if this was a SYG case, perhaps someone can explain to the President how Zimmerman was supposed to retreat while having a decent size human on top of him trying to pound him into the ground.
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Duty to Retreat means you have to try and escape, even in your own home, before you resort to the use of deadly force.

Castle Doctrine is a milder form of Stand Your Ground, wherein you don't have a duty to retreat if you're in your home

The Florida (and a couple other states I'm pretty sure) version of Stand Your Ground means you have no duty to retreat anywhere.
 
hodj

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It varies state to state, too, because Kentucky's Castle Doctrine is basically like Florida's SYG law. You have no duty to retreat in Kentucky, as long as you were lawfully allowed to be where you were when you were attacked, meaning as long as you aren't committing a crime, aren't tresspassing, and as long as the person you are shooting was engaged in committing a felony act that includes force, you can stand your ground with no duty to retreat. If someone tries to rob you in a parking lot, you can take out your concealed firearm and shoot them.

So basically we called it Castle Doctrine, but its really a Stand Your Ground style law.
 
Vaclav

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hodj_sl said:
It varies state to state, too, because Kentucky's Castle Doctrine is basically like Florida's SYG law. You have no duty to retreat in Kentucky, as long as you were lawfully allowed to be where you were when you were attacked, meaning as long as you aren't committing a crime, aren't tresspassing, and as long as the person you are shooting was engaged in committing a felony act that includes force, you can stand your ground with no duty to retreat. If someone tries to rob you in a parking lot, you can take out your concealed firearm and shoot them.

So basically we called it Castle Doctrine, but its really a Stand Your Ground style law.
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With the "not in the process of a felony" part it's already better than Florida's.... Heh.
 
mkopec

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And there is nothing wrong with that kid of law IMO. Dont most states have laws like this? I know Michigan has it as well. I mean WTF is the right to bear arms all about if you cannot defend yourself or your family?
 
Vaclav

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mkopec_sl said:
And there is nothing wrong with that kid of law IMO. Dont most states have laws like this? I know Michigan has it as well. I mean WTF is the right to bear arms all about if you cannot defend yourself or your family?
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Absolutely doesn't exist in Maryland - we had a case where a JHU student was REQUIRED BY LAW to be charged with manslaughter for accidentally killing a burglar at his residence. He took one sword strike and then called 911 for help - he did everything right for someplace that you're allowed to use deadly force to defend your property, but such doesn't exist in Maryland unless you're being attacked.

Not sure how many states are similar to us still however.
 
Arbitrary

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I've got a duty to flee here in Wisconsin. If someone started hacking at my front door with a chainsaw and I decided to load the shotgun rather than leg it out the back door I would be criminally liable if I pasted the dude.
 
khalid

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If anything this case points toward needing more SYG laws or making them stronger. All scraps of evidence in this case pointed towards it being legal self-defense, he couldn't retreat even if he wanted to and yet he still had to go to court.
 
hodj

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Duty to retreat places an unfair burden on innocent people. SYG laws were made to specifically stop situations like that kid in Maryland going to prison for defending themselves in their home from burglars.

Given the alternative, I'd say SYG is a pretty decent law, even if its written somewhat badly in some places. The idea that people are basically calling for people to retreat first, and then when placed in an indefensible position, to then give them the right to defend themselves, is to take a lamb to the slaughterhouse, chain him up, expose his neck, then tell him "Now, you can fight back".



Now, that doesn't mean there aren't problems that couldn't be fixed or loopholes that couldn't be closed, but I'd much rather have the right to blow your ass away as you climb in the window in my house you just busted in, than having to wait until you've cornered me and my family in a bedroom closet.
 
mkopec

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Now those right to flee laws are fucked up IMO. If you think about it logically, they do not make sense. You have to flee your house when your life is threatened? What is that liberalville? Robbers life is more important than yours?
 
BoldW

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mkopec_sl said:
Now those right to flee laws are fucked up IMO. If you think about it logically, they do not make sense. You have to flee your house when your life is threatened? What is that liberalville? Robbers life is more important than yours?
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It's to protect the cops that bust into the wrong home and start shooting dogs. Wouldn't want them to get accidentally shot.
 
Vaclav

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hodj_sl said:
Duty to retreat places an unfair burden on innocent people. SYG laws were made to specifically stop situations like that kid in Maryland going to prison for defending themselves in their home from burglars.
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To be fair, they acquitted him day one after almost no time - the prosecution didn't want to bring the case and the judge let it go to jury basically immediately. He didn't ever see prison time - they just required the case be heard in our structure here. (or since it's been a while it might have even been dropped before the court proceedings - whatever it was, he never saw any time beyond the initial time before bail...)
 
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