League Of Legends

xzi

xzi

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I get maybe not being able to stream a game of dota when it's super late and you just wanna play something else, but telling players in the league that they absolutely are not allowed to stream the game at all is pretty bullshit. Plus what's with the games on the list? Half of them aren't even MOBAS.. ?
 
ronne

ronne

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Almost all of them are mobas actually, or Blizzard products (who Riot is sees as their biggest competition in esports). World of X, who the fuck knows, probably because it's the other biggest f2p game out there.

Whole thing is fucking retarded though and reeks of them getting worried because they STILL can't get working tools in place for the client/spectating/replays/etc. League is still huge, but it's getting stale, and it's ripe for getting massacred by dota2/heroes of the storm, so they are trying to lock the whole competitive scene down as hard as they can.
 
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The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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League is not getting stale, it's the biggest e-sport out there by a wide margin. The fact that they feel the need to flex this muscle is a little astounding though. I can understand requiring your "professionals" to not stream other MOBAs, but Hearthstone?
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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From Riot's perspective it makes sense. You've got these guys under contract for LCS and being part of LCS is tons and tons of advertising for pro player streams. Ever since LCS started viewership has been condensing towards pro players and personalities and a great deal of money can be made from streaming if you are competing in LCS. If we are going to be pushing you guys as much as we are we don't want you streaming games we view as competition. We pay you to play in LCS, we pump your viewship, we write articles and do advertising, so don't stream other games.

I get it. I really do.

But at the same time it isretarded.It's bad PR galore. It's an image tarnisher. They've completely surrendered the high ground and didn't get much out of doing so. The value gained by not having Dyrus play Hearthstone during his 20 minute queue time is very, very low.

edit -

The Ancient_sl said:
League is not getting stale, it's the biggest e-sport out there by a wide margin. The fact that they feel the need to flex this muscle is a little astounding though. I can understand requiring your "professionals" to not stream other MOBAs, but Hearthstone?
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That reminds me. It's also a poor idea because the next logical step is for the pro teams to form a player's union and barter collectively. You know, like what every other sport has. You want to be a legitimate sport? Perhaps you should be careful what you wish for.
 
Delly

Delly

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2 LoL streamers have already streamed other games, one being Hearthstone, after this came out. Not saying its smart to, but at least the players won't just fold.

Maybe in a few years after Riot implements all the other things LoL is missing, they can add mini-games for the downtime in between matches.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Being a pro gamer must suck.

DeLLy_sl said:
2 LoL streamers have already streamed other games, one being Hearthstone, after this came out. Not saying its smart to, but at least the players won't just fold.

Maybe in a few years after Riot implements all the other things LoL is missing, they can add mini-games for the downtime in between matches.
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Apparently this contract hasn't even been signed by anyone or sent to the players yet. Most of the pros just found out about it.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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DeLLy_sl said:
2 LoL streamers have already streamed other games, one being Hearthstone, after this came out. Not saying its smart to, but at least the players won't just fold.
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Apparently saintvicious tweated that this was an old contract and that they could stream whatever. We'll get more information as the story develops.

edit - Doublelift says its accurate
 
Delly

Delly

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Yeah, saint's tweet is old. As of 6am EST or so, Riot made a statement saying it was real.

Edit: The Riot statement is on the first link I posted (one page back).
 
Denaut

Denaut

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Forgive me, as I am not up on all the details, but isn't that standard operating procedure for pro sponsorship in a sport? For example, Dale Earnhardt Jr., as per his contract, is not allowed to be publicly seen or photographed drinking any other beer besides Budweiser. He is allowed to drink any beer her wants I as long as it is done privately, but not to be seen tacitly endorsing a competing product to the company that is actually paying him. Doing so would be a violation of his contract. Soft drink companies do the same thing.

I could be missing something, but it seems to me if riot is sponsoring you to endorse LoL it is part of a standard commercial contract that you not publicly endorse a competing product. Now, there is plenty of negotiation room in what a competing product actually is and Riot's definition might be too broad, but I would say anything that falls into the MOBA category is certainly valid.
 
W

WhatsAmmataU_sl

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Denaut_sl said:
Forgive me, as I am not up on all the details, but isn't that standard operating procedure for pro sponsorship in a sport? For example, Dale Earnhardt Jr., as per his contract, is not allowed to be publicly seen or photographed drinking any other beer besides Budweiser. He is allowed to drink any beer her wants I as long as it is done privately, but not to be seen tacitly endorsing a competing product to the company that is actually paying him. Doing so would be a violation of his contract. Soft drink companies do the same thing.

I could be missing something, but it seems to me if riot is sponsoring you to endorse LoL it is part of a standard commercial contract that you not publicly endorse a competing product. Now, there is plenty of negotiation room in what a competing product actually is and Riot's definition might be too broad, but I would say anything that falls into the MOBA category is certainly valid.
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You aren't missing anything. This is a non-issue for anyone with a brain.
 
Delly

Delly

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Well there is a lot of little things that need to be put into place before Riot goes all Nazi. Firstly, probably some player association needs to be created. Secondly, Riot needs to talk to the players and not just go all "We are the overlords".

Another point is LoL players are streaming for thousands of viewers and are often sitting at 15+ minute queues so they stream other games during the downtime. While other MOBAs shouldn't be streamed (and 15-20 minutes isn't enough time anyways), why can't they play some other popular/fun games that aren't MOBAs?

If Riot wants their game to be like basketball, football, baseball, or nascar (lol?) that is fine, but considering this is new to gaming, you can't go all Hitler and demand respect.
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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Denaut_sl said:
Forgive me, as I am not up on all the details, but isn't that standard operating procedure for pro sponsorship in a sport? For example, Dale Earnhardt Jr., as per his contract, is not allowed to be publicly seen or photographed drinking any other beer besides Budweiser. He is allowed to drink any beer her wants I as long as it is done privately, but not to be seen tacitly endorsing a competing product to the company that is actually paying him. Doing so would be a violation of his contract. Soft drink companies do the same thing.

I could be missing something, but it seems to me if riot is sponsoring you to endorse LoL it is part of a standard commercial contract that you not publicly endorse a competing product. Now, there is plenty of negotiation room in what a competing product actually is and Riot's definition might be too broad, but I would say anything that falls into the MOBA category is certainly valid.
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The issue is the overreach. It's perfectly okay for Riot to say don't stream any other Mobas, considering yes that is a competing product. To broaden that to many other Esport games which aren't directly in competition is a bit too broad.

I wouldn't go pitchfork yet though, it's pretty new territory I'm sure it'll shake out differently and Riot is correct to start taking steps in this regard.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Denaut_sl said:
Forgive me, as I am not up on all the details, but isn't that standard operating procedure for pro sponsorship in a sport? For example, Dale Earnhardt Jr., as per his contract, is not allowed to be publicly seen or photographed drinking any other beer besides Budweiser. He is allowed to drink any beer her wants I as long as it is done privately, but not to be seen tacitly endorsing a competing product to the company that is actually paying him. Doing so would be a violation of his contract. Soft drink companies do the same thing.

I could be missing something, but it seems to me if riot is sponsoring you to endorse LoL it is part of a standard commercial contract that you not publicly endorse a competing product. Now, there is plenty of negotiation room in what a competing product actually is and Riot's definition might be too broad, but I would say anything that falls into the MOBA category is certainly valid.
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I don't think that comparison is accurate. These players already have sponsorship deals for products and they have restrictions they have to follow. It would be more like if Dale Earnhardt Jr. was forbidden by NASCAR from playing on a softball league. The sport itself is saying what other sports you can and cannot play. That is not the same as a keyboard endorsement.

And I highly, highly doubt that the amount of money that players earn in LCS is anything even vaguely close to what real professional athletes make. And those other players of other sports are members of unions or players associations.
 
Denaut

Denaut

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Arbitrary_sl said:
I don't think that comparison is accurate. These players already have sponsorship deals for products and they have restrictions they have to follow. It would be more like if Dale Earnhardt Jr. was forbidden by NASCAR from playing on a softball league. The sport itself is saying what other sports you can and cannot play. That is not the same as a keyboard endorsement.

And I highly, highly doubt that the amount of money that players earn in LCS is anything even vaguely close to what real professional athletes make. And those other players of other sports are members of unions or players associations.
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Hmm... I get your point but I think it is more like NASCAR forbidding him to publicly race in another racing league, rather than play softball. I believe that racers ARE allowed to do this, but perhaps with restrictions? I honestly don't know enough about it.

The biggest problem is the one-sided contract negotiations. They really should form a "player's league" to handle baseline contract negotiation like in every other professionally played game (video games aren't a sport) out there. The current contract obviously heavily favors Riot. However, I don't think it is as bad as the few articles I skimmed are making it out to be.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Arbitrary_sl said:
I don't think that comparison is accurate. These players already have sponsorship deals for products and they have restrictions they have to follow. It would be more like if Dale Earnhardt Jr. was forbidden by NASCAR from playing on a softball league. The sport itself is saying what other sports you can and cannot play. That is not the same as a keyboard endorsement.

And I highly, highly doubt that the amount of money that players earn in LCS is anything even vaguely close to what real professional athletes make. And those other players of other sports are members of unions or players associations.
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Don't the players have to take initiative to start a player's association? Not really Riot's fault.

Also, afaik Dale Earnhardt isnt being paid by NASCAR other than prize money. Riot is paying these players a salary just like any other sponsor.

Edit: Also, there is a big difference between Riot and other sports. Normally players negotiate with owners of the teams. I don't think E-sports is there yet to have teams be so lucrative that they are paying player salaries instead of Riot. Once teams become akin to any other sport than comparisons might be able to be made. Right now, without Riot, nobody would be making a decent salary other than the top few streamers.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Denaut_sl said:
However, I don't think it is as bad as the few articles I skimmed are making it out to be.
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It's not. It's really not. It's just a bad idea to act in such a manner (specifically in a unilateral manner) because it'll rile up the player base for little gain. There were better ways of approaching this idea but personally I won't look at the company any worse than I did before. Someone should have realized this was going to be a PR shit storm and candy coated it well in advance.
 
L

Lenaldo

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I mean this is non news to anyone who actually wants e sports to become a thing. My guess is "moba" doesn't have a legal definition so they just chose games they though were a competition. Its a good thing for e sports. It means there is enough money to be made to warrant such a contract.


This is no different than the NFL telling a player they can't play in the CFL. What includes competitive gaming is still undefined. Apparently in riots mind, its any game played competitively. You can disagree with their interpretation, but only an idiot would think what they did was equivalent to Hitler.

Company's that play nice are not in business for long. Do you think blizzard would allow open promotion of other games on their dime? Didn't they just ban some guy from the balls beta for streaming dota2?
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Again, all of these comparisons to mainstream professional sports instantly fall flat because those other sports have collective bargaining and much better pay. Minimum salary for a NFL player is what, 400k? And anyone playing has union protection.

It's 100% different. I stand by my softball comparison. Hearthstone and League have almost nothing in common other than they are online games with a free to play model.
 
Oblio

Oblio

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This contract thing is so dumb and short sighted.

Slightly off topic, can some one answer this for me?

Why do they insist on shoving the term "athlete" down our throat? It is an E-sport call them an E-athlete.
 
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