League Of Legends

I love the internet. Armchair dev's who have solved the moba space from the safety of the Rerolled forum.

Good thing we have you here to keep it real.

To bad the community won't change lanes until they see it in a tournament .

Drtyrm_sl said:

I love the internet. Armchair dev's who have solved the moba space from the safety of the Rerolled forum.

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What are you even talking about. The changes to supports are unpopular because the first thing everyone was told was that supports and junglers would have more gold in S4. Later a big group of "traditional" supports got nerfed and people are pissy about it. Alright, so I am going to get more gold but get less value from it. Thanks? It's not a problem of balance. It's a problem of message. I wasn't kidding when I said no one actually wanted to see Deathcap Morellonomicon Janna in every game. You fucking don't. But Riot's attempts to clarify their goals for supports and what supports are and what they should do are terrible.

I don't know how many times I have to say that I like almost every single thing in S4 thus far but I like almost every single thing in S4 thus far.

I will miss AP Janna. I enjoyed playing her mid from time to time. There was a decent thread on Reddit where someone figured out that in order to get passed the nerfs, most supports needed around 200 or so AP to get back to where they were.

Janna was my favorite thing to get handed on ARAM and I liked her quite a bit on Dominion.

The other reason people are pissy about the support changes is because they fear that Zyra, Fiddle, and Annie are going to be even better. And they are. I started up on support Fiddle in S2 back before it was cool and he's my most played in S3 on both my main account and my smurf. I'm actually dropping him despite how crazy good I think he's going to be because I know he's going to get monkeyhammered right back into the jungle. Just saving myself the disappointment.

Support Ziggs 4life.

Why did Riot assume that just because you could buy deathcap on a support now because of the gold you get that supports would forego the normal support roles to do so? I would think a Deathcap would be more along the lines of a 5th or 6th item for an AP support and most games just don't last long enough even with the gold changes for that to happen.

Bot lane is going to turn more and more into a kill lane.

Arbitrary sure does bitch a lot for liking almost everything.

I guess my point is things change. Champions fall in and out of favor almost daily. This will continue.

Arbitrary_sl said:

Janna was my favorite thing to get handed on ARAM and I liked her quite a bit on Dominion.

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People play Dominion?

I'm curious if people can make 1-2-2 or (although worse tactically) 2-1-2. Supports can get nearly the same, if not more, gold than tank/initiator junglers. So run your second support mid, have one or both supports take smite. Feed each buff at the beginning to your lanes and take extra jungle gold as you go. Your mid support can roam or you can just have lots of mid-lane pushing and dragon control, plus invade their bottom buff pretty aggressively on respawn. You'll have way more ward coverage mid (normally the hardest lane to ward thoroughly) and the gold difference will only stack up vs. a farming jungler as far as I can tell from watching people play it today.

Obviously this is purely theorycraft based on early observation of people playing around, but it sure looks like at least a viable niche strat.

Edit: Forgot I was gonna talk about supports again. Someone did math on all the support changes, and most of the nerfed supports surpass their old numbers at or before 200 AP (usually equals out around 100-150, better after that). The problem is, the actual support characters are not going to get that much AP. Watching the WePlay tourney today (which is 3.14), every support builds the new Reverie, with a Sightstone, tier 2 boots mixed in. Support characters have terrible AP scaling, and so get more benefit from building more support-style items (or tank items for Leona/Thresh/Blitz/Taric/Ali). So essentially, most supports are never going to have enough AP to get back to their old values. The ones that build straight AP will surpass their old values by a fairly timid amount and overall contribute less than a support that does not build AP.

So it's not that support champs won't be picked, it's just do you want your team to have a second AP carry? Pick a mage. Want utility? Pick support. While that's fine in theory, it also removes any item choices from support characters that aren't just traps.

Also, the new talisman of ascension just seems too much better than the other 2. I want to see the other ones used but haven't in these tourney matches so far.

Double Edit: Looks like this Zyra went for the 50 AP support item, woo!

If it ever starts showing up Riot will make changes because they don't want to "enforce the meta" *wink

With Relic Shield all things are possible. Double Relic Shield top, double Relic Shield bottom, no jungler.

So you read that reddit thread too? I think that strat can work now that duo lanes can support an extra person with xp/gold passively. It just takes coordination. If your two duo lanes can coordinate a lane push the same time the jungle comes up, keep jungle wards gong, and deny the enemy jungle from free farming, you'll do well.

However in the real world, that requires too much from each player. I think you'll see kill lanes or duo bruiser bots before you see a 1-2-2 or 2-1-2 lanes.

But 1-2-2 lanes would be better if you build them to take towers and control dragon though. Dragon control will be more important now.

I say leave top an island of fatties duking it out until their team's shouts of pain finally draw them from their farm-duel. Two mid seems stronger from an objective control standpoint, and "meanwhile in toplane" is totally a viable strategy

Edit: Yea I posted in there too, but Reddit isn't much better than GD on the official forums at this point as far as actual discussion. I should look at one of the other more quiet subreddits maybe.

Why would you want double relic shields? That would just dilute the gold between two players. I would think Relic + whatever else would be great for duo lanes.

Relic + Frost if you have a ranged to abuse frost, Relic + Ascension otherwise probably. Don't even need to rush the final form of Ascension of the gold items, they don't generate more gold, so that 1150 or whatever can go to real items until you need that utility or need to sell for the slot.

Shyvana jungle or top? She was used top a ton the past couple weeks and was getting a lot of bans. She can clear the jungle absurdly fast though.

Draegan_sl said:

Bot lane is going to turn more and more into a kill lane.

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I dunno man. I think the defensive tree is going to be OP in bot lane. I haven't had a chance to test this yet (at work still) but it seems to me that the removal of flat armor pen in the offense tree will make tanky supports incredibly strong since 21 in defense gives -3 or -4 to basic attacks plus a total of +13 armor (Hardiness + Tenacious), not counting the % bonus armor and mr bonus lower in the tree. So I plan on running 9-21 with support fiddle with Armor marks, Armor Yellows, MR/lvl blues and AP quints. This would provide 47 armor at level 1 (assuming 2 enemy champs in bot lane) and all basic attacks reduced by 3. This plus innate slow reduction and tenacity will make it way harder to kill otherwise squishie caster supports who can CC and do decent damage. I personally think that supports with strong CC kits are going to outshine sustain or poke supports and that that will affect the bot lane meta more than anything else.