Lumi's Batshit Insane Thread
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Palum
what Suineg set it to
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Palum there is no collusion betweem the FDA and anyone. Everyone hates them
Mmmhmmm. I don't believe for a moment that big pharma hasn't adjusted their business models entirely around FDA "conservatism" and patents to fuck over John Q Public and as many competitors as possible.
Doesn't mean it's the ideal solution for them.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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I have had to deal with the FDA while representing DoD projects. They are cunts. Mega cunts who are never satisfied
Cybsled
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Himeo
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Himeo is the guy everyone thinks is a troll before he drops the science, evidence, and argument that backs up his claim 100%. Then the cucks who don't have the brain power to argue against him fall back to throwing insults and trying to ignore the cognitive dissonance they're experiencing.
Case and point, from the Politics Thread.
I don't pretend to be an expert. But I have the humility to find people who are experts and listen to them.
Like this guy. Who studied the MMR vaccine which included Thimerosal.
Thimerosal is completely unnecessary. It's added ONLY to make the vaccines cheaper to mass produce. Which is why, at great expense, it's been almost entirely removed from all vaccines for children under the age of 6 (Except for half of the flu vaccines).
They published their research here in the Journal of Translational Neurodegeneration in 2014. It was retracted a month later with the following notice:
Big Pharma is the largest lobbying group in D.C. They have more than 520 full time lobbyists greasing the wheels of power. You're no longer making a claim about whether or not Thimerosal causes Autism. You're making a claim about which expert to believe. Which one of these two men has integrity. Dr. William Thompson, a whistle blower who's had his career and reputation destroyed by Big Pharma. Or the editor of the Journal of Translational Neurodegeneration, Dr. Shengdi Chen Ruijin Hospital, Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, China.
You're trusting that a Chinese doctor cannot be bribed more than you trust an American whistle blower who had, allegedly, "undeclared competing interests" and screwed up his studies "methods and statistical analysis", which Dr. Shengdi thought looked good the first time.
This is what anti-vaxx deniers actually believe.
Case and point, from the Politics Thread.
I don't pretend to be an expert. But I have the humility to find people who are experts and listen to them.
Like this guy. Who studied the MMR vaccine which included Thimerosal.
Thimerosal is completely unnecessary. It's added ONLY to make the vaccines cheaper to mass produce. Which is why, at great expense, it's been almost entirely removed from all vaccines for children under the age of 6 (Except for half of the flu vaccines).
They published their research here in the Journal of Translational Neurodegeneration in 2014. It was retracted a month later with the following notice:
Big Pharma is the largest lobbying group in D.C. They have more than 520 full time lobbyists greasing the wheels of power. You're no longer making a claim about whether or not Thimerosal causes Autism. You're making a claim about which expert to believe. Which one of these two men has integrity. Dr. William Thompson, a whistle blower who's had his career and reputation destroyed by Big Pharma. Or the editor of the Journal of Translational Neurodegeneration, Dr. Shengdi Chen Ruijin Hospital, Shanghai Jiaotong University School of Medicine, China.
You're trusting that a Chinese doctor cannot be bribed more than you trust an American whistle blower who had, allegedly, "undeclared competing interests" and screwed up his studies "methods and statistical analysis", which Dr. Shengdi thought looked good the first time.
This is what anti-vaxx deniers actually believe.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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That's good, because science is never 100%. Only true believers have 100% certainty on a claim, never scientists.
Besides, I have a problem: what claim are you making here? From what you seem to say, you appear to imply that thimerosal is a toxic due "heavy metal poisoning" (false), and you appear to make the usual anti-vaxxer "vaccines cause AUTISM" (false). With a dose of conspiracy theorist paranoia. Do you make additional claims?
Himeo
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I'm making the following claims:
1. The increase in Autism is environmental rather than genetic.
2. Vaccines containing Thimerosal increase the risk of Autism in young children.
3. Vaccines are perfectly safe, it's the additives that are causing problems.
4. All of this is a conspiracy by Big Pharma to cover up their fraud.
1. The increase in Autism is environmental rather than genetic.
2. Vaccines containing Thimerosal increase the risk of Autism in young children.
3. Vaccines are perfectly safe, it's the additives that are causing problems.
4. All of this is a conspiracy by Big Pharma to cover up their fraud.
Mudcrush Durtfeet
Hungry Ogre
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Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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At the moment, the evidence appear that most of the increase in reported autism cases comes from better and more inclusive diagnosis of it; a large number of children diagnosed with autism today would have been shelved in other categories or even completely ignored one or two generations ago.
Autism appears to be mainly genetic, and advances in diagnosis seem to indicate that a lot of autistic syndromes should be detectable as young as 6 months.
False.
Mostly false. No vaccine is perfectly safe, you have a number of complications, sometimes severe, arising from "perfectly safe vaccine". Those complications are always linked to the vaccine itself, rarely to the additives (except when the production batch has contamination problems, which is incredibly rare).
Classic anti-vaxer conspiracy theory.
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Cybsled
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The whole "autism is caused by vaccines" was spearheaded by a dipshit who wanted to make money and had no solid science. It is an example of people taking one variable and going full causation rather than correlation.
Sometimes the simplest solutions may be the right ones. 2 possible variables that I think are primarily responsible are:
1) Average birthing age for parents is going up. Older parents giving birth to children increases the probability that there may be genetic issues with their offspring
2) Criteria for diagnosing autism has changed over time, thus resulting in more diagnoses of the condition. Milder forms may be diagnosed now, whereas decades ago they may have only diagnosed the more severe cases.
Sometimes the simplest solutions may be the right ones. 2 possible variables that I think are primarily responsible are:
1) Average birthing age for parents is going up. Older parents giving birth to children increases the probability that there may be genetic issues with their offspring
2) Criteria for diagnosing autism has changed over time, thus resulting in more diagnoses of the condition. Milder forms may be diagnosed now, whereas decades ago they may have only diagnosed the more severe cases.
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iannis
Musty Nester
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I really do think it's more birthing age than vaccines.
And there may be a case or two where immune shock led to changes in early development leading to something which looks like autism. You can't say that never happens, and fuck it honestly might. Honest to god cases of SIDS still happen too, even when you can explain many of them we previously thought were SIDS cases. And you have to understand while looking at them that infant mortality in contemporary America is as low as it has ever been. Ever. In the history of babies.
But what you can say, after looking at the concern, is that the idea it happens often, occassionally, or even rarely is a misplaced concern.
And there may be a case or two where immune shock led to changes in early development leading to something which looks like autism. You can't say that never happens, and fuck it honestly might. Honest to god cases of SIDS still happen too, even when you can explain many of them we previously thought were SIDS cases. And you have to understand while looking at them that infant mortality in contemporary America is as low as it has ever been. Ever. In the history of babies.
But what you can say, after looking at the concern, is that the idea it happens often, occassionally, or even rarely is a misplaced concern.
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Ambiturner
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Nice. Every thread needs a retard who has no clue what they're talking about to liven things up.
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Cad
scientia potentia est
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The good news is Himeo is that guy to multiple threads, so he's multitasking
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Himeo
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That sounds reasonable.
Until I show you these scary fucking graphs that blow your argument out of the water.
Shift in diagnoses after the year 2000.
YOUR ARGUMENT BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
Increase in Autism absorbs retards from other categories while continuing to skyrocket through 2010.
WHAT DO YOU THINK AUTISM BRO? IS THE INCREASE DO TO CHANGES IN DIAGNOSES?
iannis
Musty Nester
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Umm, himeo. I'm not sure what you're arguing against. Are you arguing that there may be environmental factors which are unaccounted for? That's a fine argument. It may well be true and probably is true. Factors such as... advanced birthing age, the growing prevalence of one child families (prima para mothers), the fluctuation of allergens in the environment (you also see a sharp rise in allergies in the population), modern nutrition and food additives. Sonograms -- are they making babies retarded?
But if you're arguing against "an autism diagnosis is absorbing other diagnoses" then the graphs you linked (you linked the same one twice on accident I think), actually support that point more than refute it. Or are you just saying that it doesn't account for all of it?
But if you're arguing against "an autism diagnosis is absorbing other diagnoses" then the graphs you linked (you linked the same one twice on accident I think), actually support that point more than refute it. Or are you just saying that it doesn't account for all of it?
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Ambiturner
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Himeo
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I'm providing evidence in support of my first point.
1. The increase in Autism is environmental rather than genetic.
and responding to this quote:
Ukerric said:
Iannis, I'm encouraged that you think environmental factors are important. The first graph I posted had the following text:
This is a critical first point to establish. Many Anti-Vaxx denier cucks in this thread have openly stated they reject this part of the argument. That the 6000% increase is all about diagnosis and genetics. We have to establish for the cucks that environmental factors exist before we can continue the argument into the weeds.
We're in agreement and I can proceed to my second point. One final thing:
I agree that at least 25% of the increase is due to diagnosis. I am saying that it doesn't account for all of it, and the people in this thread who are hand waving the 75% increase that is unaccounted for aside are being "Fucking retarded".
(On graphs 1 and 3: I posted an older version first because it shows the trend from 1975-2009, and a similar graph for 2000-2010 because that was the same time period with graph 2 showing the change in diagnosis).
TL;DR I'm right bitches, and iannis agrees. What you're feeling right now is called cognitive dissonance. Get rekt.
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