Mad Men

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
6,922
4,325
I've always hated Betty, but holy shit did I want to just smack the ever loving shit out of her. "Why don't my kids love me?" they love you just fine until you turn into queen colossal cunt and whine and pout like a butthurt video games forum moderator.
 

Serpens

<Silver Donator>
1,043
4,704
I think the way Don should play it (or as I would write it), is follow the stipulations to the letter, become a Lou yes-man. Products will turn out shit, the other owners will see he's being shackled, and loosen the reins. Probably missing something, though. I'm not good at office politics.
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,643
betty is a life story of "some women shouldn't be a mom."
Especially if they idolized their own mother as if she was a fucking goddess and will in turn expect their own children to do the same to them. I was never very fond of Henry, but I already feel sorry for that poor bastard for when the kids are all finally grown up and out of the house and he's on the receiving end of the full spectrum of her bullshit.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Freddy Rumsen with the real motherfucking talk. I really hope this is the beginning of the "Don makes good" storyline.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,657
Fuckin real real talk.

I also seriously hope we get more of Roger, but I wonder if we will this year.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Someone more observant than me pointed out that the Mets pennant was from Lane (duh) but Lane had it during the year the Mets were famously terribad, like 66 or 67. Don found it and put it up in 69, the year of the Miracle Mets where they come from behind to win the series. Also I have to rewatch tonight's episode because the same person was claiming there were several references to Lane aside from Cooper's statement and the pennant.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
Freddy Rumsen with the real motherfucking talk. I really hope this is the beginning of the "Don makes good" storyline.
I am so glad Freddy Rumsen is still part of this show. He's like the anti-Roger, the angel on Don's shoulder. Really enjoyable episode, and I was actually on the edge of my seat while Don was drunk in the office yelling "Don't fuck it up Don!" at the TV. What I really love about this show is how such a little slice of office life can be so engaging.

Peggy is rapidly becoming an awful bitch with the way that Lou just straight up bought her loyalty after all the shit he's made her eat this season. She's becoming more unlikeable than Pete.
 

Paranoia

Trakanon Raider
1,845
643
I am so glad Freddy Rumsen is still part of this show. He's like the anti-Roger, the angel on Don's shoulder. Really enjoyable episode, and I was actually on the edge of my seat while Don was drunk in the office yelling "Don't fuck it up Don!" at the TV. What I really love about this show is how such a little slice of office life can be so engaging.

Peggy is rapidly becoming an awful bitch with the way that Lou just straight up bought her loyalty after all the shit he's made her eat this season. She's becoming more unlikeable than Pete.
Peggy has become a bit of a cunt.
oh yeah i forgot to add that fucking look Don gave Peggy pure fucking disdain and anger.when she told him about 25 tag lines.
And Pete has relax a hell of lot. That California life will do that. And Roger is Roger however that was a fucked up blow at the hippie house, I mean he is fucking right She is a mother who gives a fuck what she thought about her childhood she still was raised in a wealth house hold and to throw away her responsibility just to prove a point to daddy.
What struck me as odd is new business is new business money is money so why did Bert give Don such a hard time about it. Trying to keep him on a leash may be?
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
What struck me as odd is new business is new business money is money so why did Bert give Don such a hard time about it. Trying to keep him on a leash may be?
He's got rules to follow, and one of them is no meeting with clients alone. Bringing Bert that potential account made it look like he was bending the rules.

I'm actually not sure why Bert is being so hard on Don considering he's usually all about the money. It's not like he actually does anything at SC&P himself. Ever.
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,643
What struck me as odd is new business is new business money is money so why did Bert give Don such a hard time about it. Trying to keep him on a leash may be?
It is a bit odd. I mean if Bert wanted Don gone, he could always drop a dime on Don's true identity, which would make him damaged goods within the industry. I think he is probably annoyed at having to deal with the Don problem again, when things had been running smoothly without him. Another sign that the office had gotten fat and happy sitting on a nest of mediocrity.

Don is literally going to have to earn his way back into everyone's good graces, by doing the grunt work. I don't think he quite envisioned his return being like this.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,037
I'm annoyed at the writers for what they are doing to Peggy; she's always been a little bitchy, and tyrannical (When she's gotten power). But never stupid and petty. She's just become comically petty and naive now, and it's exhausting to watch. The whole power play for having Don report to her office and grouping him with the junior copy writer was just something a 5 year old would have thought was clever--it's something worthy of a mediocre Machiavelli-esqe mustache twisting character like Cutler; not Peggy.

And then Roger's daughter. "Just like how you were always at work dad? Waa waa...."....Why didn't Roger bring up the fact that his work allowed a full time stay at home parent? And provided for her. There is NO comparison between what he did and what she is doing; because while what he did might have been shitty, it still left a parent to take care of her AND provided that parent with the means to provide. With her gone, the father will need to work and the kid is going to be raised by a damn maid.

Argh. This episode was full of petty idiots that somehow didn't get told ANYTHING and it was just infuriating. The only one who got "told" was Don, and while I like Freddy snapping Don out of his tail spin, the fact is, Don HAD reason to be fucking depressed. The office IS actually trying to humiliate him, and it's complete shit. (Freddy's advice was still good, but god damn, Don was the least douchey person this episode aside from Ginsberg.)
 

TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Bronze Donator>
19,577
3,743
Don was always a good dude inside.

damnit don
QQ

EDIT: Rewatching Mad Men again (equally awesome as the first time...can't say the same with Breaking Bad....that was just a bore) and peggy has always been petty for a long time. I guess one occassion I think she wasn't petty was giving up her baby.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
And then Roger's daughter. "Just like how you were always at work dad? Waa waa...."....Why didn't Roger bring up the fact that his work allowed a full time stay at home parent? And provided for her. There is NO comparison between what he did and what she is doing; because while what he did might have been shitty, it still left a parent to take care of her AND provided that parent with the means to provide. With her gone, the father will need to work and the kid is going to be raised by a damn maid.
Not defending Margaret, but the show pretty heavily implies that her mother drank quite a bit and she was with a caretaker quite a bit herself. She also knows that Roger isn't going to let her child starve. It's not right, but from her perspective she's finally getting the life she wanted (though why anyone would want a life of sweaty unwashed hippy sex and sleeping on hay I will never understand).

As for Peggy, she's clearly bitter over having very little direction in her career. As talented as she is, I think she's starting to realize that almost all of her success has been luck, and being overlooked or underestimated. She wants success and awards on her own terms, which in the office is still largely defined as on a man's terms. Joan had it right. There was no clever ploy to make her fail, they just dumped Don in her lap because they couldn't be bothered with him. She has a lot of resentment towards Don, some of it legit and some of it imagined. The way she tried to emasculate him was very overt, and I get why Don flipped out.
 

Breakdown

Gunnar Durden
6,024
8,360
The thing with Bert got to me too. I didnt think of the angle of Don not meeting with customers alone - good point out there.

But yeah, Bert always seems to be about what makes money. I know hes fed up with Don and wants him gone, but at the same time to turn down a deal just to make Don eat shit? Then the line about Lane.

I cant get a read on the intent. Was it to say "Lane is dead and is no longer a part of this company, and the same for you Don". Still pretty cold.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
I think you guys are too hard on Peggy. She has to set boundaries for Don, Don is working for her. She has to put him to work using Lou's stupid system, she works for Lou.

Cooper responded to Don that way, I think, because Don was back-dooring and Cooper knew what his game was. The real shit is that Don fucked up in a huge way. All this shit, the shift in the company focus from creative to media and the complacency and the "monument to mediocrity" that SC&P has become is his fault. He was the driving force behind the creative and he has been largely phoning it in for 2 years, at least. So he thought he would walk in and Cooper would be charmed by him, but Cooper wsn't buying that horseshit.

I do not think that Peggy was fooled by Lou for a second, she realized what was happening. Lou is trying to pit Peggy and Don against each other. If one or the other burns out, he has that much less competition for his job polishing that new monument. If they take each other out, shit that's a strike.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
I don't know that Don has been phoning it in, exactly. He's had an eventful personal life, but he didn't really become distracted until Megan began doing creative work after their marriage. That's arguably the happiest Don has ever been, and also the time when his work began to slide. After she left, that's when the drinking really started in earnest. Either way, Don still had occasional flashes of brilliance.

His time in the wilderness will do him some good. Don needed to relearn a little humility, but the office is very much against him succeeding. No one really wants him there anymore besides Roger, and that's as much out of fear of competition as it is friendship.
 

Breakdown

Gunnar Durden
6,024
8,360
Yeah good post on Peggy. She now realizes that she was thrown to the wolves by Lou but cannot let don run all over her or its her ass. What a horrible spot to be in.

Also to an extent maybe Cooper was just trying to put Don in his place. Like Don rolls in like "hey I got a great idea just like the old days" and Bert came back with " No don, things have changed and you have to accept it" albeit in a much harsher way.
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,643
Joan had it right. There was no clever ploy to make her fail, they just dumped Don in her lap because they couldn't be bothered with him.
It might not rise to the threshold of upper level management conspiracy, but it was definitely a calculated move on Lou's part. It was the first salvo of the Donald Draper Implosion Project. Anything good that Don cranks out can be cast through the lens of Peggy, allowing Lou to give her the credit for it rather than Don, shoring up Peggy's allegiance to himself in the process.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,037
I think you guys are too hard on Peggy. She has to set boundaries for Don, Don is working for her.She has to put him to work using Lou's stupid system, she works for Lou.

I do not think that Peggy was fooled by Lou for a second, she realized what was happening. Lou is trying to pit Peggy and Don against each other. If one or the other burns out, he has that much less competition for his job polishing that new monument. If they take each other out, shit that's a strike.
It's not what she did (I agree, what she did is fine, she IS Don's lead on this and Lou is parking her in a tough spot); it'showshe went about it. There is a method and tact to dealing with someone who was obviously demoted; especially if they were your mentor for a decade. Look at how Don was with Freddy when he first returned. He did make Freddy to menial work, but he didn't have a little ritual to let him know he was damaged goods. That situation could have been handled with immensely more tact, but Peggy chose her little display because her primary motivation wasn't professional; it was personal. She wanted to emasculate Don with some naive, and childish view of control, like somehow marking her territory and putting him in her place was the doorway to get his acquiescence to her leadership. Like I said, it was a move I'd expect from a mustache twirling Machiavellian cliche, like Cutler--not a character like Peggy.

The reality is, if Peggy were intelligent (Which she always has been), she'd put her personal feelings aside and use Don to smash Lou. Because Don is damaged goods, she could wind up in a profoundly stronger position once Lou is gone, but she needs Don status as a partner to do end-runs around Lou. But instead she's being dumb and myopic; using her resources to settle a grudge over Ted. (Which, a lot of is purely in her head. Some of it's legit, of course, but a lot of it just isn't. It's like the whole Valentine's day flowers thing was a metaphor for Peggy's overreaction since that incident.)

I don't know that Don has been phoning it in, exactly. He's had an eventful personal life, but he didn't really become distracted until Megan began doing creative work after their marriage. That's arguably the happiest Don has ever been, and also the time when his work began to slide. After she left, that's when the drinking really started in earnest. Either way, Don still had occasional flashes of brilliance..
Yeah, I agree with this. Even the show writer said that his adds, like the suit on the beach, were meant to show Don is years ahead of everyone else. Lets not forget, Don and Megan saved Heinz Beans after Peggy boon doggled it. Then Don slam dunked Jaguar, then he got Chevy AFTER a rejection and expanded the company (To fix Jaguar). He phoned it in for a couple months while he was honey-mooning with Megan, but he was still killing it during his drinking and right afterwords. I mean, aside from Pete? No one has been more instrumental in it's growth than Don.

I think the reason a lot of them turned on him wasn't because he phoned it in and let creative sink. But rather, he became such ahugeforce in the office the rest of them felt like they were under his thumb, and that wasespeciallydangerous because Don was a huge risk taker (As most "creative" driving forces are.). Don decided on which clients could stay or go--he dictated the IPO or not; he dictated the merger. I'm sure even Burt was sick of how much power Don wielded and how hungry/risk prone he was. And once Don fucked up and gave them an opening, they tossed him.

They'd all rather have a stable, mediocre company where they all wield power--than a more successful BUT high risk company where they are supplicants to Don's will. Roger and Pete are the only ones who are different because they've always been about the climb too. (Roger said so when they went after American; it's not about the money, it's about the hunt).