Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

Butthurt

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I could give two shits about Steven Avery. Here's something we can all agree on...Brendan's first defense attorney, Len Kuchinsky or whatever, should be disbarred. Whether the kid actually did it is irrelevant. That guy tanked his client's whole case by openly stating on public airwaves that his client killed the woman, then forced a confession out of him and produced him to the cops to recite the confession outside of his presence. How that doesn't form the basis of an Ineffective Assistance of Counsel claim is beyond me.
 

OU Ariakas

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An insult worthy of your grade 5 education
Canada. This is how my Canadian wife says 5th grade. Do I win a prize?

I have a few simple questions for Jive, a_skeleton_03, and anyone else that may like to answer.

Do you think Avery and D asset were afforded fair trials? If so, why?

If not, do they deserve new trials and where should they take place?
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Canada. This is how my Canadian wife says 5th grade. Do I win a prize?

I have a few simple questions for Jive, a_skeleton_03, and anyone else that may like to answer.

Do you think Avery and D asset were afforded fair trials? If so, why?

If not, do they deserve new trials and where should they take place?
Winner winner, chicken dinner. You win a bag of milk.

No, they weren't fair trials. Yes, they both deserve new trials as far away from that backward town as possible.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
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I could give two shits about Steven Avery. Here's something we can all agree on...Brendan's first defense attorney, Len Kuchinsky or whatever, should be disbarred. Whether the kid actually did it is irrelevant. That guy tanked his client's whole case by openly stating on public airwaves that his client killed the woman, then forced a confession out of him and produced him to the cops to recite the confession outside of his presence. How that doesn't form the basis of an Ineffective Assistance of Counsel claim is beyond me.
If they ever make a movie of this, they'll never find a shiftier looking person to play him than Len himself.
I particularly liked when they caught him lying at the hearing and his response was to start eating his own lips.
 

Butthurt

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I wanted to choke that investigator when he started crying over the blue bow as they are questioning him about his interrogation of Dassey, and then he says on the stand that TH sang at his church. I hope Dassey gets some relief on a Federal Habeas petition for that.
 

OU Ariakas

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I wanted to choke that investigator when he started crying over the blue bow as they are questioning him about his interrogation of Dassey, and then he says on the stand that TH sang at his church. I hope Dassey gets some relief on a Federal Habeas petition for that.
I knew that they would never get a fair shake in WI when the fucking investigator for the DEFENSE showed a huge conflict of interest on the fucking stand and they ruled that it was all above board. It is criminal.
 

Khane

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I wanted to choke that investigator when he started crying over the blue bow as they are questioning him about his interrogation of Dassey, and then he says on the stand that TH sang at his church. I hope Dassey gets some relief on a Federal Habeas petition for that.
I didn't even know what the hell was going on when he started crying over that bow. I just thought "This is what he's going all in on?"
 

Fight

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Shocked, horrified, and terrified.

What the authorities did to Brendan goes beyond anything I could have imagined. The cops and prosecutors are monsters. You really have to be a soulless fuck to do what they did. How can anyone watch those interrogation videos and not realize exactly what is going on here?

As for Steven, I don't see it either. Their case against him was laughably bad. They didn't have a motive, till Brendan's coerced fantasy came up which they had to tuck their tails and run from. They had a body that moved two or three times ending up 10 feet from Steven's door. They had no crime scene and tried to make the case it was in his trailer or garage, when she was obviously killed or transported dead in her car. They had a timeline which was so fucked up, that they literally just seemed to be making it up as they went along. They would coerce a new story and evidence to support said story would magically appear the next day. Then when that coerced story comes out as untrue, they just got to shrug their shoulders and say, "those keys or those bullets aren't important anyways. Even if they were planted, it was done because we know he is guilty."

First thing I would do is hook Bobbie fucking Dassey (Brendan's non-retarded brother that was "hunting") up to a lie detector and go from there.

Steve Lang-"Most of what ails our criminal justice system, lie in an unwarranted certitude on the part of police officers, and prosecutors, and defense lawyers, and judges, and juries that they are getting it right. That they simply are right. Just a tragic lack of humility, of everyone who participates in our criminal justice system."
 

Semisus

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the cop and that license plate he runs i just cant get out of my head , how can a COP not remeber that ? he gets told its a missing person and he cant remeber that?
seriusly he the one who should be investigated and put on a lie detector
cant gps find out where exactly he was at that time?
 

Fight

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the cop and that license plate he runs i just cant get out of my head , how can a COP not remeber that ? he gets told its a missing person and he cant remeber that?
seriusly he the one who should be investigated and put on a lie detector
cant gps find out where exactly he was at that time?
Crooked piece of shit cops.

1) Teresa visits Avery Property 10/31
2) She is reported missing on 11/3
3) Colburn calls in plates 11/3
4) Car is found, without plates 11/5

Copied from Reddit post, spoiler for length:
1) Teresa visits Avery Property 10/31
2) She is reported missing on 11/3
3) Colburn calls in plates 11/3
4) Car is found, without plates 11/5
Option 1) Colburn finds car and Teresa's remains off the Avery property on 11/3. He calls it in. He decides to use opportunity to frame Avery and puts the wheels in motion. (too coincidental that Teresa was at Avery's days before, killed by a third party AND found by Colburn (and or Lenk))
Option 2) Colburn is watching the Avery place (at that point in the litigation they would be on Avery 24/7 - NO QUESTION). He sees the car enter, logs in the plates but, it never leaves??? By 11/3 he enters the property from the back snooping around for the car. he finds a matching car but, it has no plates. The VIN tells him it is a '99. He calls in the pate number he logged in days before. He gets the info that it belongs to missing person but, has to use year and make to confirm it might be the car he is looking at. He is stuck because he has no warrant. They wait for the car to be found. Any Avery or Dassey could have committed the crime. If it was not Steven, the real killer framed Steven OR cops planted some info to help the case along (which is convenient AND if they can't pin it on one Avery they all walk)) Likely both the real killer and the cops planted junk independently. Brendan either saw nothing (and gave a total false confession) or agreed to the theory presented to protect a family member he had more allegiance to (not realizing he would not be making it to 6th period...). A twist on this would be that Colburn is watching the place as Teresa enters. He witnesses some amount of foul play. He takes down the plate or snaps a photo or two (getting the plate number). By 11/3 he has found the car on the Avery lot (rest is same as above).
Option 3) Again, Colburn is watching the Avery place. He follows Teresa as she leaves the Avery's. He pulls her over and kills her. He puts her in the back of the car (hence her blood being there). He removes the plates as 1) it could be reported missing at any time (and you would not want to be caught with it then), 2) placing the plates at a different location on the Avery property increases the probability something is found by searchers and 3) it makes it seem like there was and attempt by Avery to conceal the car. Colburn and Lenk burn the body at the quarry and park car on Avery lot (after doctoring it up. the lot is massive and can be accessed from the quarries). By 11/3 Colburn is in a panic. Woman went missing on 10/31 and she is not reported missing!!! He calls in the plate (oops, she was just reported missing). They continue to wait for the car to be found. They join the detectives on site after the search warrant is in place. They drop the bones in the burn areas (again, both burn areas on the property increases probability they are found). They have cleaned the key as they have used it. They put on some of Steven's DNA (from what they have is custody, wiping it on a tooth brush in the trailer...) and drop it in his room. The Prosecutor needs a theory. Brendan was there when Teresa was there. They realize he is low hanging fruit. They feed him a theory (that implicates Steven - who they want badly). He gives a false confession. Prosecutors tell the, at that point, "pro Steven Avery" world the confession. Pendulum swings in their direction. Steven Avery is the devil and all jurors are tainted. They don't even use Brendan confession in Steven's case - he is too unpredictable AND there is no blood etc. in Steven's room. Prosecution at some point changes theory (for STEVEN'S trial ONLY) that she was killed in the garage. Bullet is dropped. (If they had drained some of Teresa's blood to sprinkle around before burning her - the perfect crime!!)
The Ex has been harassing Teresa. She goes missing and he panics because there could be all kinds of messages from him on the phone. At that point he assumes he will be the prime suspect. He deletes the messages. Unless it is Option 1 above, he has nothing to do with it.
How does Steven do it? Again, Colburn is casing the place. Either he writes down the plate or takes a picture of any car that enters OR he sees some amount of suspicious activity when Teresa is there and takes notes. Steven Avery has met Teresa before and develops infatuation. Girlfriend is in jail and he knows this is the time to make a move. Before Teresa arrives he covers an area in the garage with plastic. He rapes her and shoots her in the garage. The bullet initially or eventually finds its way under the compressor (Brendan may have seen or heard something/been involved). As Steven is now overly conscious of everything he notes he is being watched. He can't take the car off the property. He burns the body (the plastic, his clothes....) in his pit (Brendan may even see some toes). He tries to move the bones to other areas to shift suspicion from him. Best he can do with the car is to try to hide it on the property (crushing it would not really do anything AND family member may note him doing it). His blood gets on the car and hers as he puts her or something involved in the crime in the back. He does not overly clean car as by then realizes he is toast (or can't spend too much time on it as he is being watched/family members may take note) but, he does hide the plates. Colburn goes snooping around, sees a Rav4 without plates that matches the car he saw and calls in the plates that he already had. He can only match the car by year and model. He can't act as he has no warrant. Somehow the key is not found in the first search (we are talking 40 acres, several buildings and almost 4,000 cars). After the first search Steven thinks it is all clear. He scrubs the key and just leaves it in his room. Prosecutors have to develop a theory. They create one and either Brendan saw noting and gives a total false confession OR he saw something/was involved and thinks confessing to the cop's version is equivalent to what actually happened and wants to please them. Prosecutors figure out their theory does not work (Teresa's blood is not in the bedroom etc.). They search the garage again and find bullet (Steven did not do a good job cleaning - he did a good job preparing). Ex cleans out VM as he thinks he could be a suspect (but is really not involved) and blood vial in evidence room was just handled sloppily over the last 20 years. The prosecution is stuck with the original theory for Brendan's trial.
 

Chukzombi

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I was surprised there was no incoming out coming record of calls and GPS of SA and TH cell numbers. Maybe there is no signal over there?
 

Caal

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Fight, I understand those aren't your theories, but the ones trying to come up with how Steven did it has so many holes that make no sense. How can he possibly be laying plastic down to kill some girl if thinks hes being watched? Why on earth would Steve decide to put the key in his trailer at any point? How on earth does it take 400 searches of the compound only to finally find a bullet in clear fucking view in the garage?

I know it isn't a popular opinion, but I'm still pretty convinced the Police did whatever they had to do to make that 36 million dollars go away. Yup, including killing Dolbach.
 

Chukzombi

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The only thing I'm pretty sure of is that nobody killed that chick to frame Steven. OK its much easier to drag Steven into the woods and make him disappear and they wouldn't have to spend millions on a trial. I do think they would come across her dead body and seize the opportunity of framing Steven. The big question then is, who did kill Theresa?


-edit
It wasn't Steven, too many inconsistencies in how they claimed he was to have killed her
 

Semisus

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its all about motives i guess , the police officers in question surely had a motive to frame em , if steve had only won a fraction of that lawsuit like lets say 4 million dollars it would have still ruined the varius officers in question since the insurance wouldent help em , the license plate call , the blood vial that had clearly been tampered with , only a few blood drops in a car , the confession from a borderline retarded kid who had no understanding of what he was confessing to , like asking em if he could go home after confessing to a horrible crime , the judge who convicted him in the first place which would have gotten his reputation ruined if steve had won the civil lawsuit , the defense lawyer who didnt defend his client at all and was not present when his client confessed and publicly said his client was guilty when infact the kid had told him he was not
like how can the procecution say it doesnt matter if evidence was plantet? if evidence was planted the case against both should have been thrown out
All in all there is more than resaonable doubt in this case.
You cant just convict people of crimes just cause u dont like em , and im leaning more to the idea that the cop that called in the license plate found her dead and decided to frame steve with the crime
who did it? i dont know
i didnt see the whole interview of brendan but was he even told he could have a lawyer present when he was questioned? if he wasent wouldent the confession have been thrown out?
 

popsicledeath

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At one point there was a small snippet of them pressing the kid to say he understood his rights. So pretty sure they at least covered their asses that much.
 

Sylas

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Fight, those reddit theories, the last one, let's call it the hillbilly dexter theory that steven did it, is impossible. He was barred from his property for 8 days during the search, when the key was planted. Ie he couldn't have went to his house and dropped the key thinking he cleaned it but failed since only the police had access to it.

Most likely the first theory is correct. Colbourn found the car and the dead girl and the county found a way to avoid paying out 36 million dollars
 

Khane

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I thought they didn't find anything during the initial 8 day search, and instead found the bullet and the key on a second round of searches in March of the following year?
 

Cad

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I thought they didn't find anything during the initial 8 day search, and instead found the bullet and the key on a second round of searches in March of the following year?
The bullet yes, the key was found like the fourth day. Coincidentally after Lenk and Colburn were on the property.