Man of Steel

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sole

sole

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Movie was awesome, I felt like I was 8 years old again. It hits every demographic, except a critic's, which is a shame. I loved it.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Tuco_sl said:
yeah I know my argument was wrong. But I think there's a subset of superhero movie fans who can enjoy very powerful superheroes just wrecking shit like only they can. That subset loves superman, the complement of them does not (and is lame).
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Superman absolutely should not just wreck shit. That is not superman. in fact most of the core Superman books, are explicitly about Superman NOT just wrecking shit.

Superman just wrecking shit is literally the start of EVERY Superman goes evil alternate universe ever. or Superman evil homage.


There is a huge gap between Superman kicking ass, and wrecking shit. No one wants Superman returns, where nothing happens. Action packed fighting is good. But if hundreds or thousands are dying around him, someone fucked up badly in writing/directing.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Malakriss_sl said:
How come there aren't wealthy aliens who are superheroes? Seems like an untapped superpower base.

WTB a Ferengi going full badass.
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Space bucks to American Dollar is a terrible conversion rate. Look at those poor aliens in District 9. they each had a million space bucks.
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Eorkern_sl said:
So Araysar, wich Punisher was it that you liked ?
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The one with Thomas Jane.

Caliane_sl said:
Superman absolutely should not just wreck shit. That is not superman. in fact most of the core Superman books, are explicitly about Superman NOT just wrecking shit.

Superman just wrecking shit is literally the start of EVERY Superman goes evil alternate universe ever. or Superman evil homage.
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Watching "All-Star" that kinda annoyed me too. It seemed very contradictory for his character.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Araysar_sl said:
The one with Thomas Jane.



Watching "All-Star" that kinda annoyed me too. It seemed very contradictory for his character.
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All-star movie is super abridged. you really need to read the comics. It cuts out far far too much. and some of the most important parts of the book.

4 massive problems with the movie:
1. Regan was cut out. This was one of the most important parts of the comic. Superman is fighting a giant robot. Casual background dialogue has a doctor pleading to someone on a phone. Superman then goes and talks to Lois. and in the middle of talking to Lois, leaves her to go save Regan from suicide. As a reader, you almost certainly didn't pick up the conversation going on, until a second reading. Regan's like 5 pages later. Superman did hear the conversation, and stopped what he was doing for her. It is a very important piece of characterization.
2. Same with Pa Kent funeral. "I can save everybody" Then, talking about actions define you. Superman flat out explains his motivations, and how Pa Kent defined him.
the "I can save everyone" usually is followed by the hero doing just that. here however, we have Superman saying it and failing.
3. Universal Haiku. The finale of the book peaks with Luthors universal awareness expressed in Haiku form. The movie had the haiku, but failed to have the introduction, which occurred in issue 4 iirc on the comic.
So it has the punchline of the joke, but not the joke itself. Makes no fucking sense. In issue 4, one of Quintums aides is trying to merge universal theory in the form of a haiku. And again, at the end, that is exactly what Luthor does.
4. Book All-star. Solaris lives. Movie All-Star. he murders Solaris. Same exact scene, except Superman expressly saying, Solaris will live, is removed. So bizarre.
 
Araysar

Loser Araysar

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Caliane_sl said:
All-star movie is super abridged. you really need to read the comics. It cuts out far far too much. and some of the most important parts of the book.

4 massive problems with the movie:
1. Regan was cut out. This was one of the most important parts of the comic. Superman is fighting a giant robot. Casual background dialogue has a doctor pleading to someone on a phone. Superman then goes and talks to Lois. and in the middle of talking to Lois, leaves her to go save Regan from suicide. As a reader, you almost certainly didn't pick up the conversation going on, until a second reading. Regan's like 5 pages later. Superman did hear the conversation, and stopped what he was doing for her. It is a very important piece of characterization.
2. Same with Pa Kent funeral. "I can save everybody" Then, talking about actions define you. Superman flat out explains his motivations, and how Pa Kent defined him.
the "I can save everyone" usually is followed by the hero doing just that. here however, we have Superman saying it and failing.
3. Universal Haiku. The finale of the book peaks with Luthors universal awareness expressed in Haiku form. The movie had the haiku, but failed to have the introduction, which occurred in issue 4 iirc on the comic.
So it has the punchline of the joke, but not the joke itself. Makes no fucking sense. In issue 4, one of Quintums aides is trying to merge universal theory in the form of a haiku. And again, at the end, that is exactly what Luthor does.
4. Book All-star. Solaris lives. Movie All-Star. he murders Solaris. Same exact scene, except Superman expressly saying, Solaris will live, is removed. So bizarre.
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I appreciate the extra info, but in all honesty I dont think that would have turned the movie around for me.

My problem with the story stems from too many story strands being in the same movie, a lot of them ending up in what seems to be dead ends. There is no overall narrative cohesion, it seems like its just 10-15 story vignettes being pasted together.
 
McCheese

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Trying to explain the All-American Superman to a dirty Russian. Don't bother.
 
Araysar

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Arakkis_sl said:
Go read Red Son and tell me Superman is impossible to write for.

This scene is p good too.

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Red Son is a perfect example of why Superman is impossible to write for. In order to actually write a good story for him, you had to take him out entirely out of his established continuity and canon and throw him into some sort of Soviet parallel universe "what if" scenario.
 
A

Arakkis

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Or maybe the fact that he doesn't just lobotomize every criminal or take over the Earth makes him a complex and iconicsuperhero. Constantly exercising self-control despite having great power and using his natural gifts to help those in need are quintessential American values. Well at least they used to be. America is kind of a dick now.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Araysar_sl said:
I appreciate the extra info, but in all honesty I dont think that would have turned the movie around for me.

My problem with the story stems from too many story strands being in the same movie, a lot of them ending up in what seems to be dead ends. There is no overall narrative cohesion, it seems like its just 10-15 story vignettes being pasted together.
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well that was largely my point. it took bits and pieces of the books. and crammed them together, leaving no real narrative. And completely gutting what it did show. Like my point about the Hiaku. it only showed the punchline. so that scene completely lost its meaning. it did this repeatedly.

All-Star really is 12 stories tied together. trying to cram it into 1 movie, breaks it entirely. It no longer works as a collected work. and each story loses its narrative.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Arakkis_sl said:
Or maybe the fact that he doesn't just lobotomize every criminal or take over the Earth makes him a complex and iconicsuperhero. Constantly exercising self-control despite having great power and using his natural gifts to help those in need are quintessential American values. Well at least they used to be. America is kind of a dick now.
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I didn't see the Iron giant wrecking shit. Because superman is not a gun.
 
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