Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Rhuma_sl said:

Not to take away from alcoholic dad but we all have our issues...

I recently found out my "fiance" is planning on parting ways, she's contacted family and friends to try to find housing for her and our 3 kids.

She's told me she is very unhappy in our relationship, being a stay at home mom was never her plan in life and that we are completely opposite people which I agree with. In all honesty we should have never been together let alone had 3 kids together but here we are regardless.

We have been staying at her mother's house since September, after my unsuccessful attempt at starting up a pressure washing business, since then I've been employed at amazon.

We've been given a deadline to get out of her mother's house come the end of June and here is where the problem is, I found out she wants to part ways after 7 years.

That absolutely terrifies me, the thoughts of child support and her having the only car leaves me not only stranded and unable to get to work but how I can afford my own place, buying a car in a little over a month.

Not to mention the anxiety of dating, who the fuck wants to get involved with a 29 year old dude with 3 kids, I have to question anyone who would want to get involved with that much baggage unless I was loaded, which unfortunately, I am not.

Bros, what am I to do? I honestly don't even want to save the relationship, she's a spoiled fucking brat that thinks only of herself and blows through money like a powerball winner with a coke problem, we will never have anything in our lives because she refuses to work and has d her family to save her from falling no matter what.

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It's always darkest at the beginning. Things WILL get better as you work through it.

Start by getting the basics in order, like where to live and how to resolve transportation. Once you're stable, you can work on the other things. Any custody or child support deal needs approval by the state. Do NOT try to go under the table with a handshake deal, you could get royally fucked later. Consult an attorney if needed. As for the "baggage" and feeling low, that's the shitty situation talking. It's not as bad as it seems.

Nester_sl said:

We should stop the pile on about drinking, clearly he recognizes it was fucked up and has taken the right steps to turn it around.

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No we shouldn't and no he hasn't. Dude said "2 mo sober and everything's not better what the hell" and pays for counseling but says he doesn't want to bother her with details?? Bigger problems there and too much unsaid. Needs head rescrewed on not just a "yea bro it's all her fault!" pep talk. TBH, he's still excusing his alcohol problem as "not the issue" which means probably looking for validation to start up again.

I wouldn't even worry about dating my man. People with kids date other people all the time, it's just a part of you now.

That said I really wouldn't even think about dating in your situation..

Also what kind of woman uses the excuse that it "wasn't her plan" but has 3 kids anyways? Does she think she's just gonna find a dude now that will watch the kids all day while she goes out and parties? She made her bed and she should lay in it.

CalhoonJugganaut_sl said:

. If you like a picture of someone you haven't seen in 13 years with their kid, apparently you are checking out some cleavage and you are definitely trying to hook up with that person. After that, you aren't going to be talked to even after apologizing for something that really isn't a big deal and really isn't worth an argument considering the person she is accusing you of having future carnal knowledge of.

My wife would spend $100-200 without telling me out of our debit and then our credit and since I had recently stopped drinking I just let it slide.

I don't go into my wife's phone, though she goes into mine

My guess is that her day to day Mon-Fri is watching every reality TV show/Court Show/Snapped Show(How Someone Was Murdered by their Spouse) that she can fit into her schedule outside of feeding and changing our daughter. I really feel like I'm at my breaking point and ready to say fuck it.

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So she's sees her mother a lot? is there a chance she's dropping the baby off with her mother when you're not home (As in, she's probably not watching TV--she's probably out. From the sounds of it you have no idea where she is, and you probably don't care, either.)? Nearly every person, man or woman, I've known who is crazy possessive like this and snoops on phones and gets outraged at even the slightest sign of interaction with the opposite sex, is usually cheating themselves and is paranoid. (But, being paranoid is different than caring about what the other person is doing.)

I mean, given you were drunk off your ass, it's not unreasonable she fell into a relationship with someone else--especially if you're the type of drinker who largely ignores people around you. If that's the case, you not drinking isn't going to change what has happened, if she's relying on someone else for (emotional) support now, the damage is kind of done.

Not saying she is, there is no hard evidence in the above (And it's only one side of the story so its probably biased), but I'm always wary of people that are crazy jealous like this. I've experienced this exactly twice in my life and both times found out later the person was a chronic cheater (After I left them, I absolutely can't abide this kind of behavior in another adult. You're married, it's a partnership, not a god damn prison.)

That being said, in this case, your wife had a lot of room to get herself into a potential mess with someone else...Dude 800$ a month on booze? That's enraging JUST from the financial perspective alone.

Palum_sl said:

No we shouldn't and no he hasn't. Dude said "2 mo sober and everything's not better what the hell" and pays for counseling but says he doesn't want to bother her with details?? Bigger problems there and too much unsaid. Needs head rescrewed on not just a "yea bro it's all her fault!" pep talk. TBH, he's still excusing his alcohol problem as "not the issue" which means probably looking for validation to start up again.

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I see what your saying and do not disagree, but let's not push him back towards booze. He's started the long road to recovery and we should be supportive so he stays on this road. No question he is kidding him self if he thinks 2 months of sobriety fixes everything, but he is on the right path.

Also, I bet you paid for that counselling session not him. Socialism is inefficient becouse folks waste stuff they get for free.

Rhuma_sl said:

Not to take away from alcoholic dad but we all have our issues...

I recently found out my "fiance" is planning on parting ways, she's contacted family and friends to try to find housing for her and our 3 kids.

She's told me she is very unhappy in our relationship, being a stay at home mom was never her plan in life and that we are completely opposite people which I agree with. In all honesty we should have never been together let alone had 3 kids together but here we are regardless.

We have been staying at her mother's house since September, after my unsuccessful attempt at starting up a pressure washing business, since then I've been employed at amazon.

We've been given a deadline to get out of her mother's house come the end of June and here is where the problem is, I found out she wants to part ways after 7 years.

That absolutely terrifies me, the thoughts of child support and her having the only car leaves me not only stranded and unable to get to work but how I can afford my own place, buying a car in a little over a month.

Not to mention the anxiety of dating, who the fuck wants to get involved with a 29 year old dude with 3 kids, I have to question anyone who would want to get involved with that much baggage unless I was loaded, which unfortunately, I am not.

Bros, what am I to do? I honestly don't even want to save the relationship, she's a spoiled fucking brat that thinks only of herself and blows through money like a powerball winner with a coke problem, we will never have anything in our lives because she refuses to work and has d her family to save her from falling no matter what.

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Have you considered changing your name and moving to one of America's beautiful monasteries?

Rhuma_sl said:

Not to take away from alcoholic dad but we all have our issues...
.

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What's your education and level of fitness? Had a friend in your situation years ago, joined the army. Of course this is when they were sucking up any warm body they could get. But he was 30 and joined (He was pretty fit though.) If you have a college degree, it helps, I've heard--maybe some of the military guys could share.

But it's a life you can get by without a car. It gives a steady pay check and place to live.

Lithose_sl said:

So she's sees her mother a lot? is there a chance she's dropping the baby off with her mother when you're not home (As in, she's probably not watching TV--she's probably out. From the sounds of it you have no idea where she is, and you probably don't care, either.)? Nearly every person, man or woman, I've known who is crazy possessive like this and snoops on phones and gets outraged at even the slightest sign of interaction with the opposite sex, is usually cheating themselves and is paranoid. (But, being paranoid is different than caring about what the other person is doing.)

I mean, given you were drunk off your ass, it's not unreasonable she fell into a relationship with someone else--especially if you're the type of drinker who largely ignores people around you. If that's the case, you not drinking isn't going to change what has happened, if she's relying on someone else for (emotional) support now, the damage is kind of done.

Not saying she is, there is no hard evidence in the above (And it's only one side of the story so its probably biased), but I'm always wary of people that are crazy jealous like this. I've experienced this exactly twice in my life and both times found out later the person was a chronic cheater (After I left them, I absolutely can't abide this kind of behavior in another adult. You're married, it's a partnership, not a god damn prison.)

That being said, in this case, your wife had a lot of room to get herself into a potential mess with someone else...Dude 800$ a month on booze? That's enraging JUST from the financial perspective alone.

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Yea she might be cheating on him. And your wife might be cheating on you. And every woman in the world might be cheating on her man. And probably with a guy who has a way bigger dick than you, more money, bigger house, nicer car. You may as well just give up.

What in his story makes you even consider this? Men are typically weak and jealous when it comes to women, it's why the traditional gender roles existed in the first place, but come on.

Khane_sl said:

Yea she might be cheating on him. And your wife might be cheating on you. And every woman in the world might be cheating on her man. And probably with a guy who has a way bigger dick than you, more money, bigger house, nicer car. You may as well just give up.

What in his story makes you even consider this? Men are typically weak and jealous when it comes to women, it's why the traditional gender roles existed in the first place, but come on.

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I explained what made me think of it. Literally in the post. People who root through your phone and grow outraged at liking photos on facebook ect? Show a pattern of jealous behavior that I've usually seen in people who are cheating and paranoid about it in others.

I also made sure to say this happens in men and women, in fact, I've found it more in men who are overly controlling. I have no idea why you believe its a gender thing--what the fuck are you talking about with the 'traditional gender roles' shit. Did you actually read my post?

Lithose_sl said:

I explained what made me think of it. Literally in the post. People who root through your phone and grow outraged at liking photos on facebook ect? Show a pattern of jealous behavior that I've usually seen in people who are cheating and paranoid about it in others.

I also made sure to say this happens in men and women, in fact, I've found it more in men who are overly controlling. I have no idea why you believe its a gender thing--what the fuck are you talking about with the 'traditional gender roles' shit. Did you actually read my post?

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Yea you think that anyone who ever exhibits jealous behavior is suspect. Facebook is literally the worst thing that could have ever happened to relationships across America (I'm not being sarcastic). If behavior like he describes makes her a likely chronic cheater every woman I've ever dated has cheated on me.

It's stupid and ridiculous but it's hardly an indicator of cheating. Because on the same token she could be jealous because she's been cheated on before, not because she's a cheater.

"If you can't trust, you can't be trusted". Sounds reasonable until you break it down. There's a million reasons why someone might not trust you. Like being an alcoholic for instance.

I'm saying men are weak and jealous because the type of logic you are employing is the same logic behind why men wanted to keep women locked away in a house.

Khane_sl said:

Yea you think that anyone who ever exhibits jealous behavior is suspect. Facebook is literally the worst thing that could have ever happened to relationships across America. If behavior like he describes makes her a likely chronic cheater every woman I've ever dated has cheated on me.

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You date women that look through your phone, and grow outraged over facebook likes? Hmm, most of the women I've been with are far more balanced--maybe I'm lucky. I've only been with, as said, two women like that. The rest actually act like, you know, adults?

Khane_sl said:

It's stupid and ridiculous but it's hardly an indicator of cheating. Because on the same token she could be jealous because she's been cheated on before, not because she's a cheater.

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It could, but they've been married for 7 years. If they were in a relationship for any reaosnable time before then, she was with him by the time she was 22. That doesn't leave a lot of room for someone who has experienced chronic cheating

Khane_sl said:

I'm saying men are weak and jealous because the type of logic you are employing is the same logic behind why men wanted to keep women locked away in a house.

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So expecting someone (Male or female) NOT to be jealous, is a sign of weakness? Well, okay. I think your logic is pretty twisted here. I didn't say anything about keeping her locked in the house, SHE is the one checking on him, remember? Would you say she is a weak person? Maybe you could use the 'typical female behavior' of aggressively checking on what their men do to explain gender roles for me? (Since apparently, from what you've said, every woman you've ever dated displays these controlling tendencies that wish to isolate you from others).

Kind of odd that your lived experience is one way but you still formulate your ideological views of gender roles the completely opposite direction. By views are gender neutral. Men and women who are jealous, and who have an absent partner (like an alchoholic that apparently can't even remember conversations) tend to have a high chance to cheat. Don't turn that statement into some odd gender role debate. (No idea why you're doing that, but I'm not going to shit this thread up with it.)

Lithose_sl said:

You date women that look through your phone, and grow outraged over facebook likes? Hmm, most of the women I've been with are far more balanced--maybe I'm lucky. I've only been with, as said, two women like that. The rest actually act like, you know, adults?



It could, but they've been married for 7 years. If they were in a relationship for any reaosnable time before then, she was with him by the time she was 22. That doesn't leave a lot of room for someone who has experienced chronic cheating





So expecting someone (Male or female) NOT to be jealous, is a sign of weakness? Well, okay. I think your logic is pretty twisted here. I didn't say anything about keeping her locked in the house, SHE is the one checking on him, remember? Would you say she is a weak person? Maybe you could use the 'typical female behavior' of aggressively checking on what their men do to explain gender roles for me? (Since apparently, from what you've said, every woman you've ever dated displays these controlling tendencies that wish to isolate you from others).

Kind of odd that your lived experience is one way but you still formulate your ideological views of gender roles the completely opposite direction. By views are gender neutral. Men and women who are jealous, and who have an absent partner (like an alchoholic that apparently can't even remember conversations) tend to have a high chance to cheat. Don't turn that statement into some odd gender role debate. (No idea why you're doing that, but I'm not going to shit this thread up with it.)

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A grand example of a Lithose post. You anecdotally knew a couple women who acted jealous as a deflection of their own indiscretions. So you come onto the internet and tell a confessed alcoholic who was recklessly endangering his own child's welfare that he should be wary of his wife because "A couple times I saw this, she's probably cheating on you dog".

I get it, sometimes a sign of an untrustworthy person is that they get ridiculously jealous for no good reason. And sometimes it's because they're married to an alcoholic who is just a generally unreliable, untrustworthy person.

And yes, it must be nice to always have dated women who transcend normal human emotion and never exhibit unreasonable jealous behavior. I'm sure you've only dated the two like that. The type who commented on a facebook like or old photos you keep around or anything of the sort. Do I tolerate behavior like that? No, it's a large reason why I am single, does it mean I think they're cheating on me? Also no.

You're a big fan of logical fallacies Lithose. You should know all about this one.

And once again, you're another one who is taking the post of an alcoholic as if it has even an ounce of credibility.

EDIT: Oh and just because you can't seem to piece it together. I'm calling the type of man who instantly believes he's being cheated on just as weak and jealous as the woman who's spying on him.

Khane_sl said:

A grand example of a Lithose post. You anecdotally knew a couple women who acted jealous as a deflection of their own indiscretions. So you come onto the internet and tell a confessed alcoholic who was recklessly endangering his own child's welfare that he should be wary of his wife because "A couple times I saw this, she's probably cheating on you dog".

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This thread is for personal advice, right? Are we linking studies now? And it wasn't just the jealousy, I also spoke of him being an absent partner--that's a big thing and very damaging to a relationship. Why are you trying to narrow the post down to one thing? He should be wary because he caused a lot of damage to the relationship, his wife's jealousy might simply be a sign that damage has taken a pretty permanent form.

Also, I rarely use anecdotal personal evidence in other threads (What I'll sometimes use is an article to build an article from)--in fact, I often warn against personalized anecdotes because they invite bias. This thread though I thought was mainlypersonal experiencesand advice--in fact, that's what he said he was looking for. Obviously I'm mistaken and this thread is actually an red pill debate thread about gender roles and shit?

Khane_sl said:

I get it, sometimes a sign of an untrustworthy person is that they get ridiculously jealous for no good reason. And sometimes it's because they're married to an alcoholic who is just a generally unreliable, untrustworthy person.

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And when someone is married to someone like this--how do these problems typically manifest? This is a military couple no less....You don't have much experience here, do you?

Khane_sl said:

And yes, it must be nice to always have dated women who transcend normal human emotion and never exhibit unreasonable jealous behavior. I'm sure you've never dated a woman who commented on a facebook like or old photos you keep around or anything of the sort. Do I tolerate behavior like that? No, it's a large reason why I am single, does it mean I think they're cheating on me? Also no.

You're a big fan of logical fallacies Lithose. You should know all about this one.

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I said I've dated two women who were like that, and broke it off with them. But certainly not all women are like that--that's an awful view to have to believe all women are like that. Maybe you should calm down, because your interpretation of my post was obviously more about you being defensive than what I said.

Also, commenting on face book stuff is not ripping into someone over exchanging a like with someone you haven't seen in thirteen years. I am a very big fan of logical fallacies and your false equivalences are pretty bad. But I'm not going to point that out in this thread because, again, it's just an advice thread, right? Or am I mistaken?

Khane must have some serious anecdotes about alcoholics

Unfortunately I have to jump in here and say that Khane has a point. I almost felt sorry for Calhoon, and then I remembered how utterly terrible it was having two alcoholic parents. My dad is dead from Cirrhosis of the liver at 61, and my mother to this day has blamed all of her problems on everything else except her addiction to wine and pain killers. Calhoon do yourself a favor. Regardless of what happens with your kid, and wife. Stop drinking permanently.

Lithose_sl said:

This thread is for personal advice, right? Are we linking studies now? And it wasn't just the jealousy, I also spoke of him being an absent partner--that's a big thing and very damaging to a relationship. Why are you trying to narrow the post down to one thing? He should be wary because he caused a lot of damage to the relationship, his wife's jealousy might simply be a sign that damage has taken a pretty permanent form.

Also, I rarely use anecdotal evidence--in fact, I often rage against it. This thread though I thought was mainly personal experiences and advice--in fact, that's what he said he was looking for. Obviously I'm mistaken and this thread is actually an MRA debate thread about gender roles and shit?



And when someone is married to someone like this--how do these problems typically manifest? This is a military couple no less....You don't have much experience here, do you?





I said I've dated two women who were like that, and broke it off with them. But certainly not all women are like that--that's an awful view to have to believe all women are like that. Maybe you should calm down, because your interpretation of my post was obviously more about you being defensive than what I said.

Also, commenting on face book stuff is not ripping into someone over exchanging a like with someone you haven't seen in thirteen years. I am a very big fan of logical fallacies and your false equivalences are pretty bad. But I'm not going to point that out in this thread because, again, it's just an advice thread, right? Or am I mistaken?

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No Lithose, I'm saying you're advice is terrible and you should feel bad for offering it.

There is no way to interpret your post other than "Hey I've seen this before, probably cheating. I mean, no real evidence, but dude... she's probably cheating". And that's ridiculous, especially considering the source of the conflict.

Picasso_sl said:

Khane must have some serious anecdotes about alcoholics

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I mean, I don't disagree with him. Be an alcoholic for seven years you do some serious damage. A symptom of damage can sometimes be cheating. Given her jealousy and the fact that he has, what seems like, no interest in her day (Since he dismissed it as TV shows and diaper changes)? I'm thinking the damage probably has permanent effects--and I don't even blame her for them. He cheated with the bottle. But those are from my experiences.

Khane_sl said:

No Lithose, I'm saying you're advice is terrible and you should feel bad for offering it.

There is no way to interpret your post other than "Hey I've seen this before, probably cheating. I mean, no real evidence, but dude... she's probably cheating". And that's ridiculous, especially considering the source of the conflict.

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So you mean exactly what I said?

Lithose_sl said:

Not saying she is, there is no hard evidence in the above (And it's only one side of the story so its probably biased), but I'm always wary of people that are crazy jealous like this. I've experienced this exactly twice in my life and both times found out later the person was a chronic cheater (After I left them, I absolutely can't abide this kind of behavior in another adult. You're married, it's a partnership, not a god damn prison.)

That being said, in this case, your wife had a lot of room to get herself into a potential mess with someone else...Dude 800$ a month on booze? That's enraging JUST from the financial perspective alone.

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I specifically said I was offering my anecdotes about my experiences in situations where someone shit inside of a marriage, and then left the partner alone--then the partner becomes very jealous. I've watched this pattern personally a few times now, and pointed it out. That's all, no more, no less--and I pointed out that this is nothing but a suspicion based on personal experience, and specifically said there is no hard evidence. The post was mainly about how the damage might be permanent--that saying "I'm done drinking now!" doesn't erase the effects of years of abandoning a partner (Which might have materialized in, say, cheating.)

I'm going to bet here you didn't actually read the post. No idea what stick you shoved up your ass earlier, but you should probably go ahead and remove it. I'm not in this thread to debate gender roles and shit, or whatever your motivations are. I gave my advice,I was CLEAR it was from personal experience. So fuck off.

Picasso_sl said:

Khane must have some serious anecdotes about alcoholics

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Well yes, but nothing personally scarring. Two degrees of removal from the situations and such.

Probably seems like I hate people who are alcoholics and that's not really true. I just know that compassion and empathy doesn't generally help them because they just feed off of it as forgiveness to keep on with the trend. Being told exactly how terrible the habit is, what they're doing to the people around them, and letting them know they will destroy their entire lives if they don't stop goes a lot further. I just use harsh language because I'm super tough.

Addicts don't really change until they HAVE to, usually out of fear of losing everything, or after already having lost everything. Rock bottom as they call it. The worst thing you can do for a newly recovering addict is go easy on them.

So when I read people empathizing about his "cunt wife" and telling him she totally sucks and he should think about leaving her all I think to myself is "What the fuck are you guys doing? You're validating an excuse he's already come up with to run away from his life and continue drinking. You're telling him it's her, not him. That's all he hears."

Noodleface_sl said:

I wouldn't even worry about dating my man. People with kids date other people all the time, it's just a part of you now.

That said I really wouldn't even think about dating in your situation..

Also what kind of woman uses the excuse that it "wasn't her plan" but has 3 kids anyways? Does she think she's just gonna find a dude now that will watch the kids all day while she goes out and parties? She made her bed and she should lay in it.

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I know right now or in the near future wouldn't be the time to date but im just thinking of the future, ya know? I eventually want happiness too, not just be her monthly paycheck.

As far as her "plan" she liked the idea of having kids but not the reality of it all.

She considers me working 10 hours a day where I walk an average of 15 miles a day (10-20) as "me" time and when I get home, she wants "me" time where I get to cook/bring home dinner, clean up the house, give baths and put them to bed while she goes to her friends bar to drink a few beers or goes to her aunts house to smoke a pack of cigarettes to vent about how shitty her life is and how shes practically "doing everything" already so why stay with me since im gone 12 hours of the day anyways(working).

Im one of those "yes dear" guys since it's not even worth the fucking argument to fight for equality when I literally have maybe an hour of time to myself before having to go to sleep to wake up in 6 hours to do it all over again.

Today I was sent home from work because shit broke and nobody in my department could work. So she took the opportunity to leave me at home with the kids so her, her aunt and her mother could go out to lunch (this was 6 1/2 hours ago) after stopping by the office to work out a deal with the HOA. We live in a 55+ community and the kids are strictly forbidden, which is why we have til the end of june to vacate but their plan was to convince them that the kids leave the house at night to stay with their dad.

This is supposed to be a workaround to give "us" more time to find a place for all of us but I see it a little differently. I see it more as laying the ground work to give her a place with her mother so she doesn't have to work or pay bills while hiding the children at night and be able to come and go in the day.