Cad
scientia potentia est
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What problems do you have that we're not being sympathetic to thats causing you to lash out? You can tell us.
Marriage and the Power of Divorce
- Thread starter Grumpus
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Haast
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I can sympathize with DW's desire to drill down to details and overfocus on the argument. I am also an engineer.
However, this is more of a big picture problem. It's not "she better give it up cuz I like sex", it's the loss of physical connection with your monogamous partner. Maybe intercourse isn't an option, but that doesn't mean you shut down everything and neglect your partner's feelings on the matter. That's a recipe for Olebass's situation, which I think we all agree is not good.
However, this is more of a big picture problem. It's not "she better give it up cuz I like sex", it's the loss of physical connection with your monogamous partner. Maybe intercourse isn't an option, but that doesn't mean you shut down everything and neglect your partner's feelings on the matter. That's a recipe for Olebass's situation, which I think we all agree is not good.
Tarrant
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My example isn't off at all, I used your same example and switched activities from one to the other. This is the same thing.
Now you're going to the extreme that makes no sense because you refuse to give up a point. Intimacy come sin multiple forms, lots in fact. Expecting someone to show they love you in intimate ways that you're married to isn't something that's unreasonable. If we aren't doing that then I have many friends I care about that I can have the same relationship with. I love my wife, I want to be intimate with her, even if it's as simple as taking a shower together...that's intimate time spent together.
I can hang out with women I care about and don't ever see naked and aren't able to touch all the time with much less of a headache.
Again, marriage is work. You have to put in an effort no matter what is working against you. Shit, I know a guy who is paralyzed from the waist down and can't get an erection. Dude says he's never in the mood and hse injects shit into his dick to make it hard, he's having surgery to be able to blow it up like a balloon so he can fuck his wife. Why? He can't feel anything, he gets no physical enjoyment out of it.
Because he loves his wife and wants to be able to please her so he's willing to put in that effort to do so.
It's not rocket science.
Now you're going to the extreme that makes no sense because you refuse to give up a point. Intimacy come sin multiple forms, lots in fact. Expecting someone to show they love you in intimate ways that you're married to isn't something that's unreasonable. If we aren't doing that then I have many friends I care about that I can have the same relationship with. I love my wife, I want to be intimate with her, even if it's as simple as taking a shower together...that's intimate time spent together.
I can hang out with women I care about and don't ever see naked and aren't able to touch all the time with much less of a headache.
Again, marriage is work. You have to put in an effort no matter what is working against you. Shit, I know a guy who is paralyzed from the waist down and can't get an erection. Dude says he's never in the mood and hse injects shit into his dick to make it hard, he's having surgery to be able to blow it up like a balloon so he can fuck his wife. Why? He can't feel anything, he gets no physical enjoyment out of it.
Because he loves his wife and wants to be able to please her so he's willing to put in that effort to do so.
It's not rocket science.
Tarrant
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I'm making the assumption that you guys don't like thankless, unenthusiastic sex. Because that's exactly what the wife of balloon dick is going to get, unless that guy is one hell of an actor. I know when something is off with my wife, and it's REALLY obvious during sex. You guys say you want intimacy with your spouse, but what's the point of one way intimacy? How can you make a physical connection when you know they are only doing this for you?
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This is pure bullshit and you know it.
Me and the wife went through shit like this a few years back, and you know what? I talked to her about it. I told her, I, as a man, needed intimacy and sex every once in a while, and you know what she did? She had sex with me because it was important for her to please me and keep me happy because she loved me. And while she did it, she had some fun too because, you know, it feels good. Its not like Im asking for some porn star, although that would be sweet, but sex a few times a week? Month?
And no we are not owed sex, but it is a part of a healthy relationship. As soon as the sex stops, resentment sets in and relationships tend to sour real fast. Sex is an important and integral part of a relationship.
Cad
scientia potentia est
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Everyone is entitled to find a happy life. What we're saying is that for a normal young man, sex and physical intimacy is part of a happy life. If she can't or won't provide what he needs to be happy, why is it is a problem if he thinks thats unacceptable?
Turn it from sex to another part of a happy relationship - say, kids. If I want kids and my partner can't or won't have kids, should I just say, oh well. Can't have kids, fuck it. Or should I make the most of my life and find someone who can meet my needs?
All we're telling him to do is either get her to meet his needs, or find someone who can.
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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Have you been reading this thread? Some of these stories are so depressing that "thankless, unenthusiastic sex" is an improvement of several magnitudes.
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Mkopec: So, you had a problem, talked about it rationally and worked it out? How does prove what I said is bullshit?
How is "owed" and "integral" not the same thing in this context? You're just passing the buck to the "relationship" instead of yourself. Why is it not possible to have a loving relationship with someone and not fuck them?
Soy: no disagreement there. But I imagine a lot of sex starved guys will be almost as unhappy in that state too. That kind of sex is really awkward and unsatisfying.
How is "owed" and "integral" not the same thing in this context? You're just passing the buck to the "relationship" instead of yourself. Why is it not possible to have a loving relationship with someone and not fuck them?
Soy: no disagreement there. But I imagine a lot of sex starved guys will be almost as unhappy in that state too. That kind of sex is really awkward and unsatisfying.
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That, in and of itself, is not a problem. The context is the problem. For Olebass, he has very little to lose, barring his girl going psycho. Chaos and others with families? They have more to consider.
Furthermore, why shouldn't the cause of the loss of libido be considered? Should you really dump someone for something that was out of their control? Something they're trying to control and fix? I think that's really short sighted and horrible advice.
Really wish there was a meme of Carlin telling 12-steppers to drop some of their needs.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
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Temptation, physiological response, instinct, desire. There are deeper problems here. When someone shuts off ALL intimate contact (we aren't talking just about sex here but you seem to be stuck on that one point) it's impossible to not feel as though you are no longer desirable. If your partners sex drive wanes and yours doesn't it's very noble to act like you should be completely understanding and forego your own needs for the sake of your partner but that is entirely too altruistic for most human beings to achieve. Not only that but it's such a basic, powerful want (to be loved, and intimate with someone) that it's hard to even think about living a life devoid of any physical contact.
To me what Tarrant is describing sounds like she won't even hug him anymore. She's completely shut down, and when the topic is broached she gets defensive. It's a very big problem, and it's enough to drive someone crazy. If you shut down like that the relationship becomes completely platonic and it's enough to make you go crazy. You start to wonder what it is you're doing wrong, if she still loves you, if she wants out or worse, if she's cheating on you. It's understandable for medications and other things to lower sex drive, but it's not understandable for the person you used to be intimate with, the person you're married to, to not even be willing to talk to you about it. It's very selfish on her part.
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Exactly, and this is why me and the wife had a long talk about it. And you know what she told me? She wasnt even aware that it was a problem to begin with. But it can also expose problems she has with you as well. There usually is a reason your wife wont have sex with you that's a little bit deeper problem than libido. And its up to you to find out what the problem is and fix it to your best ability.
My problem? I was gaming to much. Kids went to sleep and I was gaming. Not doing my part to be a good partner for her. So i fixed that.
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If Tarrant just wants a forehead kiss and some cuddling and his wife won't do that, that's another problem altogether. I would argue those are different forms of intimacy, ones that don't require sexual desire. Are we not assuming this discussion is about sexual intimacy?
Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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Could we go even more basic and say a loss of libido is something along the lines of natural selection? Mental, physical, or otherwise. We are animals after all.
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So let me get this straight, were all just supposed to grin and bear it when our wives turn off the sex spigot completely? Just go and whack one off? Accept the hug and move along to our corner of the room?
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You keep giving examples where communication is the problem. I think the other people having problems here are well past that.
Depends completely on the context of the situation. What caused it? Have you discussed the consequences fully of any decision? But yeah, grin and bear it might be the best solution in some cases.
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When it's known for gay men to have kids(with a woman) and families, I would say no.