Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Unless you're forever dating in open relationships, I don't think you're going to get what you're after Khane. You talk about not wanting to give your autonomy, yet in a marriage that is open, you still are married. You are still devoting your life to another person, promising to love them forever and support them through illness and all that jazz. You however, are agreeing to also seek sexual pleasure from other people. If giving up autonomy means you can do whatever ever you want forever and fuck the person that stands in your way, it doesn't sound like relationships are for you whether monogamous or not.

Though honestly, it is not such a bad thing to lose some of your single person's independence. You gain a whole lot of other things in the process.

And with regards to the kids comment. Just because you have two kids does not mean you love one any less than the other - you are correct in that. But realize you lose a whole shit load of independence there because with kids in the equation, you have to be willing to give yourself completely to them in a way you never had before kids.

Khane: I agree with Soy. It sounds more like you want to be single and bang around rather than worrying about someone else's problems. And that is a fine lifestyle, especially if you can keep a steady stream of like-minded hookups going. But I really doubt an open relationship, where you have to worry about more than 1 girl's problems, is going to solve your desire for freedom.

You do have the right idea about marriage though. You should hold a potential marriage partner to a very high standard because it is the biggest commitment you'll make, and it is full of challenges and compromise. I learned that lesson the hard way. You don't want to learn it the hard way.

The Master_sl said:

They are a lot of work, involve a lot of communication, require honesty and the ability to understand your own feelings. It isn't easy.

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And that's different from a monogamous relationship how?

lindz_sl said:

Unless you're forever dating in open relationships, I don't think you're going to get what you're after Khane. You talk about not wanting to give your autonomy, yet in a marriage that is open, you still are married. You are still devoting your life to another person, promising to love them forever and support them through illness and all that jazz. You however, are agreeing to also seek sexual pleasure from other people. If giving up autonomy means you can do whatever ever you want forever and fuck the person that stands in your way, it doesn't sound like relationships are for you whether monogamous or not.

Though honestly, it is not such a bad thing to lose some of your single person's independence. You gain a whole lot of other things in the process.

And with regards to the kids comment. Just because you have two kids does not mean you love one any less than the other - you are correct in that. But realize you lose a whole shit load of independence there because with kids in the equation, you have to be willing to give yourself completely to them in a way you never had before kids.

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I think I may have misrepresented myself. I understand that any relationship requires a certain amount of selflessness. But I am not interested in traditional marriage either way, monogamous or open. Just not interested in it. For me it's an antiquated contract that puts me at a disadvantage. I do want a relationship but I don't want a contract hanging over my head. If the person I am with and I decide it's time to move on I want to be able to do that without involving lawyers and judges and mediators. I want to have a relationship I can focus on now without having to worry about 20 years from now. That is what I mean about giving up my autonomy. I'm not referring to never wanting to have to help someone paint their bedroom again. Besides, I honestly feel like when two people are married things occur that piss them off that otherwise wouldn't. Look at the story from the guy who refused to buy his wife frozen yogurt just because he was pissed. I feel like all the pressures of marriage and societies expectation of married couples feed that kind of behavior. Is that on an individual basis? Of course, but I think I am one of those individuals who would become resentful.

Kids are an entirely different story, I do want kids and have no misgivings about what raising a child is about. This is another human being who is completely reliant on you to protect them and provide for them. I am 100% ready for that, and even want it. Though that may be difficult considering my attitude towards relationships.

I am not looking for bang buddies (though they would be welcome) nor do I want to be single. I've been riding that train the last 3 years of my life. I'd be pretty upset if she decides this isn't what she wants and can't be with me, but it's something I feel strongly about. I want the companionship and love without the lifelong, weird contract that is for whatever reason, legally binding.

Oh, and yea, I want to have sex with other people if I feel like it.

Haast_sl said:

Khane: I agree with Soy. It sounds more like you want to be single and bang around rather than worrying about someone else's problems. And that is a fine lifestyle, especially if you can keep a steady stream of like-minded hookups going. But I really doubt an open relationship,where you have to worry about more than 1 girl's problems, is going to solve your desire for freedom.

You do have the right idea about marriage though. You should hold a potential marriage partner to a very high standard because it is the biggest commitment you'll make, and it is full of challenges and compromise. I learned that lesson the hard way. You don't want to learn it the hard way.

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I think you guys are thinking of it as a one way street, where I'd be like a king among mormons. 10 wives for me, but none of those wives are able to sleep with anyone other than me. I will have multiple outlets to vent, and so will she. It's a group effort! Community healing!

I also really don't have any experience with what I am talking about. It's all just an idea in my head. I have a plan, but that doesn't mean I'll be able to execute. I could end up wallowing in the misery of my own decisions.

Deathwing, I can't see that video at work. I'm assuming it's from Clerks since you mentioned Dante. 37 dicks scene.

DickTrickle_sl said:

And that's different from a monogamous relationship how?

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Well, it isn't, if you put the work I feel like you ought to into a relationship. Everything people do in open relationships to make them function would benefit monogamous relationships..... if people did it. But for the most part they don't. The difference is with a healthy open relationship it goes from optional to mandatory. Which is one of the reasons there has been a considerable effort to study open relationships and how they work, in an effort to improve monogamous ones.

This is really best illustrated by a comment of an acquaintance of mine. Happily married guy, loves his wife, loves his kids, good job, nearly everyone in his social life thinks the world of him. He cheats on his wife. 2-3 times a year, one night stands, usually while traveling for work. So he sees my open relationship, sees how hard we both have to work at it, and we get to talking about this one night. I ask why he doesn't just ask his wife about being open. His response, and I quote, "Shit man, I see how you and (wife's name) work at that and that is great that you can do it, but I think it is just too much work. It is just easier to cheat."

I couldn't even argue with him, research agrees that being open is more work.

Well I certainly don't want to be the guy who cheats

So I'm cool again right?

Just curious, do you/would you have any hang ups about the other side of that open relationship partaking in a mountain of dicks?

How would that make you feel?

Nester_sl said:

Just curious, do you/would you have any hang ups about the other side of that open relationship partaking in a mountain of dicks?

How would that make you feel?

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I've already thought about that, in depth. As long as she's safe I don't really care.

Deathwing_sl said:

Sure. Were you #37?

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I thought Clerks was a terrible movie so I remember none of the dialogue

you're dead to me

Khane_sl said:

But I am not interested in traditional marriage either way, monogamous or open. Just not interested in it. For me it's an antiquated contract that puts me at a disadvantage. I do want a relationship but I don't want a contract hanging over my head. If the person I am with and I decide it's time to move on I want to be able to do that without involving lawyers and judges and mediators.

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Perhaps this was not your point, but I'd like to myth-bust a bit on the "divorce always fucks over the man" mantra. In popular culture, divorce is a no-rules woman victory-fest. The second you say "I do", you are beholden to her for life or she gets to ruin you financially. I can't speak for every state, but in mine, the divorce laws are fairly reasonable. Which, speaking of finding out the hard way, my ex was exceedingly sad to learn. Deal with it, bitch.

Under community property law, the assets you had before marriage still belong to you in a divorce. Only money and assets accumulated during the marriage are split (hence, community property). Spousal support is not even on the table until you have been married 10 years, and even then it only lasts a certain # of years and is limited by % income & has a hard cap.

So in the case of my pathetically short marriage, we had accumulated little together. I had saved diligently prior to marriage, and I kept that savings. I purchased a house independently before we were even engaged, and the house was granted completely to me. And she had a rather pricey attorney hired, so I assume he would have gone after things aggressively if he had any chance.

Kids complicate things greatly, but we'll leave that for another discussion.

Haast_sl said:

Perhaps this was not your point, but I'd like to myth-bust a bit on the "divorce always fucks over the man" mantra. In popular culture, divorce is a no-rules woman victory-fest. The second you say "I do", you are beholden to her for life or she gets to ruin you financially. I can't speak for every state, but in mine, the divorce laws are fairly reasonable. Which, speaking of finding out the hard way, my ex was exceedingly sad to learn. Deal with it, bitch.

Under community property law, the assets you had before marriage still belong to you in a divorce. Only money and assets accumulated during the marriage are split (hence, community property). Spousal support is not even on the table until you have been married 10 years, and even then it only lasts a certain # of years and is limited by % income & has a hard cap.

So in the case of my pathetically short marriage, we had accumulated little together. I had saved diligently prior to marriage, and I kept that savings. I purchased a house independently before we were even engaged, and the house was granted completely to me. And she had a rather pricey attorney hired, so I assume he would have gone after things aggressively if he had any chance.

Kids complicate things greatly, but we'll leave that for another discussion.

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I wasn't saying I'd automatically get fucked over, I was saying there's a chance, any chance at all is something I'm not OK with. Aside from that the fact that it requires legal intervention at all to dissolve is just ridiculous to me.