DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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But speed and power!1!
I will say this, though, in years he's pitching he's definitely the most valuable player as long as he's having anything close to what's a good season for him.
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I will say this, though, in years he's pitching he's definitely the most valuable player as long as he's having anything close to what's a good season for him.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Weird to be so dismissive of it given how rare 40/40 is, let alone 55/55 or whatever Ohtani's final numbers end up being.
You can't hype up Judge's significantly higher OBP without also looking at his RS%. Ohtani scores 35% of the times he gets on base, Judge scores 24% of the time. Judge's OBP arguably isn't as valuable on a team that can't bring him home. Judge may be beating him in RBIs but Ohtani is beating him by almost as much on runs scored. 114 runs scored/136 RBIs for Judge, 125/122 for Ohtani. I think Judge still edges him out in raw offensive contribution (which is all Ohtani has this year) but the gap isn't as wide as yall are making it out to be.
Judge is having an absurd season and if he had done it any other year there would probably be no question but Ohtani's performance plus the way he can't even flex a pinky without a media blitz hyping it up makes me think that there's a real chance the BBWAA not only gives it to Ohtani but does so unanimously to try and build him into an even bigger legend. God knows the sport is desperate for superstars.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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I think RS%/runs/even RBIs speaks to the team performance more than something like batting line with RISP does (though clearly the steals help run scoring). It would be one thing if the difference was small, but he's like 350 points better than Ohtani there.
It also obviously matters that Soto is batting before Judge (when healthy), so that's a point in Ohtani's favor. Outside of Soto, though, I think the lineup favors Ohtani.
I don't think the gulf is terribly wide but I do think Judge has simply had a more productive offensive season. Plus he plays good defense in a prime position. That's not nothing when it comes to what's valuable.
Rare is cool and amazing but like you've alluded to there's a lot of hype here and that clouds objective analysis. If Shohei was some country boy from Ohio and had a 55+ double / 50+ homer season with 20ish steals (comparable offensive production), I doubt he gets quite this much attention. There's so much mystique attached to the combination of homers and steals.
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Jovec
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Pick one, I'll take the other.
But there are too many variables to rank one over the other definitively. If Betts doesn't miss those 40 games, Ohtani stays at #2 in the order and maybe has another 10 RBI. At the same time, Judge has +49 more walks so he is getting pitched around more than Ohtani, who has more protection around him.
But there are too many variables to rank one over the other definitively. If Betts doesn't miss those 40 games, Ohtani stays at #2 in the order and maybe has another 10 RBI. At the same time, Judge has +49 more walks so he is getting pitched around more than Ohtani, who has more protection around him.
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50-50 is hyper impressive, someone having both of those traits at that level is absolutely crazy. But hitting home runs and stealing bases isn't the only things that make up a baseball player. Judge has a higher average, he hits for more power, he walks more, he's actually playing centerfield etc.
If Ohtani even just played a mediocre LF, he would take less of that WAR penalty and would be even having a more impressive season. I personally hope he pitches for a few more years until his elbow falls off, and then just plays outfield.
It's not hyperbole: Ohtani and Judge, in their dead prime, appear to be two of the best players ever, with Ohtani potentially being the greatest. For instance, Judge's 2022 season and this season trumps anything a hitter has done since Bonds - better than A-Rod, Pujols, Cabrera, even Trout. These two dudes are special. You're seeing Mickey Mantle numbers from Judge, and Ohtani is doing Babe Ruth shit.
Let's not sleep on Bobby Witt. Kid is 24 and is an elite-elite shortstop defensively, having a massive 10+ WAR season. Kid is an absolute freak show.
If Ohtani even just played a mediocre LF, he would take less of that WAR penalty and would be even having a more impressive season. I personally hope he pitches for a few more years until his elbow falls off, and then just plays outfield.
It's not hyperbole: Ohtani and Judge, in their dead prime, appear to be two of the best players ever, with Ohtani potentially being the greatest. For instance, Judge's 2022 season and this season trumps anything a hitter has done since Bonds - better than A-Rod, Pujols, Cabrera, even Trout. These two dudes are special. You're seeing Mickey Mantle numbers from Judge, and Ohtani is doing Babe Ruth shit.
Let's not sleep on Bobby Witt. Kid is 24 and is an elite-elite shortstop defensively, having a massive 10+ WAR season. Kid is an absolute freak show.
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elcaro1101
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Someone helping run a front office and knows about baseball? I think this is a compliment.
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elcaro1101
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Exactly the point. We all know what he is pointing out, and that stats are valid. It's just the point of being a bit nerdy to get to his train of thought. I'm not gonna fly off the handle at him with some crazy insult, it's not a big deal at all.
I called him a nerd, and he called me a moron in reply. No weapons will be used in this fight.
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The interesting thing to me is. A few of us are happy and enjoying a once in lifetime performance of a lovable player and two miserable bastards can't help...
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Maybe you shouldn't be so emotionally invested. What a fucking girl. If me pointing out that I think Aaron judge is slightly better than Ohtani this year is ruining your shit you need some help. This shouldn't he so triggering. You can still enjoy the hype and spectacle. The game where he broke 50/50 was amazing and had to be an incredible experience to be at.
Don't let my attempt at a factual rational argument disrupt your masturbation time with your Ohtani body pillow.
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Furry
BROWN NOW
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Arguments that nobody ever made for a thousand, Alex.
Obviously he's going to be the MVP and probably unanimous. Judge will also probably be the MVP but probably not unanimous.
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