NBA 2012-13 Season Thread - Crown The Heat!

James Lebrons top 5 all time based on what? His PER? This shitty stat is being taken as an end all discussion point now?

Can we at least wait until he's closer to the end of his career?

I can't wait to tell my grandchildren of the chosen one, how we were all witness to him stabbing his hometown in their collective backs while taking his "talents" to a loaded Miami team so he could finally not lose in the playoffs with a 60 win team. I can't wait to tell them how James was just physically superior to everyone when the age of the big man was long gone. How he'd just barrel into people on fast breaks and couldn't be stopped. He's a great passer, but please, he's no Magic.

He's not playing in a league with Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Prime Shaq. Top 5 ever? At this stage?

Look, James is the best player in the NBA, but he certainly has his faults and most of it starts upstairs in that huge cranium. He's been anointed from day one and it shows in his behavior through the "decision" to the welcoming party to every flop and cry baby call for attention on every perceived non call.

Just because you all eat this force fed shit and buy into doesn't mean everyone has to. What the fuck is the point of rooting for teams or players if you HAVE to root for every one of them? Who gives a shit if he's the best in this current NBA? Does that mean we have to like him?

I can hate on him all I want, doesn't mean he's not great, and it certainly doesn't mean he wouldn't have been great in the 80's or 90's, he just would have had a hell of a lot more competition. Those barrels down the lane against Shaq, Rodman, Malone, Barkley, and on and on would have ended with him on the floor. I do think those type of players could and would have gotten into his head. (silly to say he wouldn't avg at least 20 in any era though)

In short, isn't there enough slobbin on Lebrons knob by Gaige and Ham in here? Is it ok for people to express dislike for the "chosen" one?

A whole lot of retard on both sides now. PER is not a real stat so please don't use it to back up arguments. Lebron would definitely be a superstar in any era, but isn't even close to Jordan.

The entire series when Lebron would drive in and get blocked or miss a layup he would lay on the ground complaining that he was fouled instead of getting back on defense.

That's the kid of stuff people man when they say he has no heart or the intensity Jordan did. Instead of whining to the ref it would have pissed Jordan off and he'd make it his goal to not just beat the other player, but crush him to the point where he no longer wants to play basketball anymore. He was close to a personality disorder. He would be offended by everything which would motivate him more. Like a basketball Incredible Hulk.

LeBron's the opposite. The harder it gets for him the less motivated he is. He's not the only player like that. Vince Carter was a physical freak with less heart than Lebron. Both players are > Jordan physically, but Jordan will always be the better player.

Daez-- Do you see mequoting rational posts and arguing with people who dislike him (but recognize he's great) for what he did or me defending that, or downplaying Jordan's greatness. Don't apply my conversation and arguments with someone else to your own thoughts, while mixing in a third parties quotes as well and pretend that we're having a discussion about this. There's a lot of valid points regarding the game's history, James' place in it, etc, but that's not really what I've been talking about. I merely used stats when I had to in order to actually back up my argument regarding some of the stupid shit people have said in this thread, and I think Tarrant's best rebuttal to this point has been something along the lines of 'ur dumb'. How people now think I'm arguing Jordan vs Lebron, I don't know. I understand the comparisons as they're both the best players of their era, but LBJ has a long way to go to sit next to him. Six titles isn't reachable imo, but I think if he wins 4 or so we can realistically have that conversation

PER is definitely a real stat for players who log large amounts of minutes.

Ambiturner_sl said:

A whole lot of retard on both sides now. PER is not a real stat so please don't use it to back up arguments. Lebron would definitely be a superstar in any era, but isn't even close to Jordan.

The entire series when Lebron would drive in and get blocked or miss a layup he would lay on the ground complaining that he was fouled instead of getting back on defense.

That's the kid of stuff people man when they say he has no heart or the intensity Jordan did. Instead of whining to the ref it would have pissed Jordan off and he'd make it his goal to not just beat the other player, but crush him to the point where he no longer wants to play basketball anymore. He was close to a personality disorder. He would be offended by everything which would motivate him more. Like a basketball Incredible Hulk.

LeBron's the opposite. The harder it gets for him the less motivated he is. He's not the only player like that. Vince Carter was a physical freak with less heart than Lebron. Both players are > Jordan physically, but Jordan will always be the better player.

Click to expand...

This LeBron wilts under pressure line of bullshit is getting old. He sure wilted under pressure when he willed his team to victory in game 6 of the NBA Finals all of TWO DAYS AGO.

There are valid criticisms of LeBron but he doesn't wilt under pressure nor does he back down from contact.

People just make up their own idea of Lebron's game and his play, it's really weird and I can't remember it happening to another player on this level

Like Lebron's pass to nobody at the end of regulation and his waaay off 3? He got really lucky his team kept getting offensive rebounds, the Spurs shit it up from the 3 point line, and Allen hit a 3. The line he "willed" them to a win is such cop out bullshit.

And PER was created by a very hated former ESPN analyst. He made the entire thing up and weighted the stats however he wanted. Then espn forced it down people's throats like they're trying to do with the NFLs QBR. Nobody who knows either sport well takes them seriously.

Any stat formula that doesn't have Wilt as way way way above everyone else is a shitty formula. Right now he's a fraction if a point higher than 2nd place which its complete bullshit

Ambiturner_sl said:

Like Lebron's pass to nobody at the end of regulation and his waaay off 3? He got really lucky his team kept getting offensive rebounds, the Spurs shit it up from the 3 point line, and Allen hit a 3. The line he "willed" them to a win is such cop out bullshit.

And PER was created by a very hated former ESPN analyst. He made the entire thing up and weighted the stats however he wanted. Then espn forced it down people's throats like they're trying to do with the NFLs QBR. Nobody who knows either sport well takes them seriously.

Any stat formula that doesn't have Wilt as way way way above everyone else is a shitty formula. Right now he's a fraction if a point higher than 2nd place which its complete bullshit

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say he "willed" them to win, but I think he was a major factor of how they got back into the game in the fourth quarter.

PER is a real stat, but it doesn't include everything that happens on the court, and that is my issue with using it to prove relative greatness. It certainly doesn't take into account huge differences in rules from different eras.

Who is the best big man in todays NBA that Lebron has to play against? A 37 year old Tim Duncan that can't turn it on for every game? Roy Hibbert? LOL. I mean, I'm not even getting into people like David Robinson, Bill Laimbeer, and that dbag coach of the Rockets. How many Charles Oakleys are in todays game?

Ham, you aren't quoting anyone, just chirping in with your take and using PER to back it up so I addressed it. Look, Lebron is impressive, no doubt, but stats certainly aren't everything.

The guy just came off one of the most efficient seasons in the history of the modern era of basketball, and only two players have a PER over 27 for their career (James and Jordan). Only three players have ever topped a PER of 31 for a season as well, Wilt, Jordan and James, and James has done it 3 times (4 times over 30). Only two players have higher playoff PERS than him, Jordan and Mikan. I know it's not a perfect stat, but one that puts Wilt, Jordan, and Shaq's dominate seasons towards the top of their list, show they're measuring something well.

He may trust his teammates to a fault, but if Magic can be a super star without a shot and someone like Drexler can score the way he did James would've absolutely had his way in a similar way in the 80/90s. He'd probably averaged close to 10 assists a game though, as ISO hadn't taken over in a way it has now. The guy is one of the greatest players of all time and he's one of the few that could've played in any era, I just feel bad for people who can't appreciate that. When you dudes are a little older maybe and not as bitter you'll get to tell your grandchildren how you didn't get to enjoy Lebron's career because you were too busy ignoring the facts season after season

Click to expand...

Blocks weren't even an official stat back in Russell and Wilts era, there was no 3 point line. You say modern era but then include Wilt in the conversation. Chamberlains career averages - 30.1 points, 22.9 rebounds, and 4.4 assists per game. If we're just going to use stats I guess we can end any discussion of the greatest of all time right now.

Heat, game 7 at home, have to think they win this one. If not for a lucky bounce to Ray Allen 2 days ago Lebron would be 1-3 in the Finals, and he certainly hasn't been at his best in all 4 series.

Yes, Lebron is an all time great, but I certainly wouldn't put in him the top 5 just yet.

This thread is the worst now. No one is going to change anyone's mind. No matter the result, this thread is going to be even worse after tonight's game.

I like how no one has mentioned how bad Tony Parker played in game 6. I know he hit two huge baskets in the 4th that seemed like it sealed the deal, but he shot 6-23 (26%) and 6-7 FT. 19 points isn't bad for a role player, but he really didn't have a good game. I guess the one positive is he didn't have any TO (Manu had him covered, haha).

Hamscratch_sl said:

I like how no one has mentioned how bad Tony Parker played in game 6. I know he hit two huge baskets in the 4th that seemed like it sealed the deal, but he shot 6-23 (26%) and 6-7 FT. 19 points isn't bad for a role player, but he really didn't have a good game. I guess the one positive is he didn't have any TO (Manu had him covered, haha).

Click to expand...

Hey guys. Parker had a bad game because he was off. Not because LeBron shut him the fuck down.

From Grantland:

James had a hand in holding Tony Parker to 6-of-23 shooting, and it's useful to look again at those numbers - 6-of-23 - and remember them the next time you want to eviscerate James, or Kevin Durant, or Kobe Bryant, or whomever for some awful Finals shooting performance. Stars have bad games in the Finals. Everyone loves Tony Parker, and he'll get about 1/100th of the screaming gruff LeBron or Kobe would get for a 6-of-23 performance. Parker's little compared to those guys. He's cute, he's French, and we've been going on for five years about how criminally underrated he is. He went 6-of-23 with a chance to clinch the Spurs' fifth title? Eh. It happens. He's dealing with a hamstring injury, the world's best player is hounding him like some werewolf stalking prey under a full moon, and, hey, he made some absolutely sensational shots in the last 1:30 of regulation to nearly cinch the game for his team. Forgive, forget, move on.

And that's the appropriate response to Parker's game. I just wish we could invoke context like this when it comes to other great players. After all, Parker's a great player, right? A franchise player? Haven't we tripped all over ourselves declaring that over the last two months of transcendent Parker games?

Click to expand...

Yeah, way to shut that gimpy superstar midget Parker the fuck down. Was it Lebron over there blocking his shot in OT? Team defense.

Parker has an iffy 3 shot, you back off him and play his drive where he's deadly. If Parker is going to hit his outside shots, that's when you can't really defend him.

That's what Lebron did, it's a good tactic.

Lebron shut Parker down no doubt. Parker can't create space with his off arm against Lebron, so his drives are defended pretty well. Lebron is also just as quick as Parker, so Parker can't even take him off the dribble often for a quick jumpshot without being contested.

If Miami plays this bullshit "defend the 3 point shot " defense again, they are going to lose IMO. They pulled a miracle last time playing that D...I don't see it working again tonite.

And please. I know it's easy to hate on Lebron, but he IS an all world player. I personally would take him over all players minus Magic, Bird, Jordan and Hakeem. That isn't bad company. The problem is his rep, which has been earned I may add with some bad decisions and bad plays in crucial games, hounds him like no one I have ever seen.

Foggy. He absolutely backs down from contact man. He rarely tries to fight thru double teams, or even initiate contact on his shots.If he can't see a clean opening to the basket he pretty much will settle for a jumper. Which is WHY he has the rep he does. Who can stop him short of a triple team when he drives.