Nintendo Switch (previously NX)
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
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Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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You're hopeless. T Therage M Man0warr I know you are both pro Switch, but at this point you two are the only one's in here with a semblance of intelligence aside from @Rafterman who knows his shit.
I would like to hear your insight on what it means for the global market when an off centered off cultured from global markets country, has the majority of your base install in the gaming industry. Yes, I am trying to lead you here a little bit. And let me preface this, and help, by stating the Wii's success was global, and Japan only accounted for 11% of the install.
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KCXIV
Molten Core Raider
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lol, im waiting for this tanking! it might happen one day, but today is not that day!!!!!!!!!!!
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Japan was also 30% of the 3DS and DS sales, and both of those outsold nearly every console except the Wii and PS2. It's not a bad thing. Yeah their share of the home console market has gone down but that's because they spend less time in their homes than most - they want mobile and handheld games.
Japan buys more video game hardware than any other single country outside of the US.
The Wii was a home console, so again not surprising it only sold ~11 million in Japan - which is still HUGE compared to how PS3 and PS4 sold there.
I'll reiterate that a handheld console is going to sell proportionately more in Japan compared to the World, than a home console does. The home console market in Japan has been shrinking every year for over a decade, basically since the PS2.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Correct. (This is exactly where I would hope you would go)
Now, illustrate to me what you played on the 3DS. Name your top 6 games. I am going somewhere with this, and it will include a term I call unrealized market segmentation and confusion.
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The games I've put the most hours into on the 3DS are Monster Hunter 3U/4U (over 300)/Generations, Zelda Link Between Worlds, Pokemon XY and Sun/Moon, Fire Emblem Awakening/Conquest/Birthright. Also various Etrian Odyssey and Shin Megami Tensei games.
Ritley
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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3DS/DS has a bunch of great games. If they switch those developments all over to the switch then there’s no doubt in my mind that the switch will be fine. Unfortunately it doesn’t really look like that is happening, at least not in the near future.
if It wasn’t for the split screens I would say Nintendo should have made the switch be able to play 3DS games
if It wasn’t for the split screens I would say Nintendo should have made the switch be able to play 3DS games
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Good. As did I. More so of the fact that these types of games were really the heart of the 3DS, and they weren't coming out on any other console. Portable, easy to get into, easy to play.
Now, had the 3DS been a more powerful machine and at the time let's say you could have played Skyrim, Wticher 3, etc on it... You have two choices. (And play along even if you do not like those kinds of games - I am not sure if you do, but for debate sake) A) Yes I would love to play this on the 3DS. B) I would rather play this style of game on a more powerful console/PC for a greater experience as these types of games warrant it.
And with that: Do you agree there are two types of games - Portable/easy to play, and more in depth games which offer greater experiences than what can be had on a portable.
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One of the executives at GameFreak this week at an event said that Ultimate Sun/Moon would be the last 3DS mainline game. Atlus is moving Shin Megami Tensei and Etrian Odyssey. Intelligent Systems next mainline Fire Emblem game will be Switch exclusive. Square's next RPG will be Switch exclusive.
It is happening, it will just take time. The games still coming out for 3DS have been in the works since before anyone knew the Switch would be a success.
There's definitely games that have been designed for easier use on a portable, but I don't think that rules them out as docked/home console games. I played my 3DS mostly at home - if I could have hooked it up to my 60 inch TV I would have had no issues playing Pokemon, Monster Hunter, etc on it. Monster Hunter especially has been designed since the PSP to have short, easily digestable sections of play (the hunts) that you can do on a subway or train ride - it's one of the biggest reasons for it's huge success in Japan. But I don't think Monster Hunter World, a game designed for the home console Western market, is going to deviate too much from that. It will still work just fine.
One of the best things about the Switch is it has instantaneous suspend/resume. Even playing a more involved game you can just shut it off instantly if needed and go back to it later.
I don't disagree with the sentiment that some games are going to be less powerful on portable or more difficult to play portable I should say. But the reality for me is I'm a twenty to thirty minute consumer of these games at a time. Can I do the same on my ps4 or pc? Sure can. Can I do that while at work though? Not really. Do I think some games deserve to be in 4k with all the trimmings, of course, but again that doesn't drive my purchasing choices. I'm not arguing that I'm most consumers these days, I'm not and I'm aware of that.
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Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Ok so with that said...
The Switch is supposed to do both. Portable, and home console. If that is the case, it would need the following according to their very own business plan as they merge the market segmentation.
* Feature parity with Home consoles (This does not have that across over 8 distinct feature sets)
* Feature parity with Portable consoles (This does not have that across over 10 distinct feature sets)
* Power parity with Home consoles (This does not have that)
* Power Parity with Portables (Definitely has that, in fact, above and beyond)
* Control parity with Home consoles (Added Price with Pro Controller)
* Control parity with Portable console (Has it)
So right now Nintendo is 2 for 6 in actual requirements. Now the big one.
* Game driven market parity - related to games only across both portable and home console platforms (As the point of the Switch is to merge these)
a) Price Parity - No.
b) Feature parity - No.
c) Performance Parity - No.
d) Control parity - No. (Standard controls are backwards from mainstream market even though Nintendo came to the game first. They didn't change with global market standards)
e) Library Parity (Tbd but leaning towards a big no)
That's 0 for 5 - bringing our total now tor Nintendo's market segmentation merge at 2 for 11 on even the most basic principles of merging two distinct markets under an industry.
Now, this is where we get into the unrealized market segmentation confusion term. Every missing bullet point is a percentage that will lead towards complete market confusion. In this case, 9 missing bullets, 82% market confusion. This percentage is the general confusion level of any consumer looking at a switch for a sale. Meaning, 82% of folks out there right now have no idea if they should be looking at this as a home console, a portable console, or both.
This will, as usual, send Nintendo back into the same place they have always been. A 1st party system which will never reach true market potential of what it wanted to do, and another company will pick it up where they left off in some really shoddy work, do it the correct way, match the parity sets, and realize the potential of the device.
Now there is more to this. Following so far?
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Bruuce
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Bruuce
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Hey Ut why are you assuming that their business plans include or should include having all the features of other consoles?
Granted sound choices could have been better, Bluetooth options sure. And having vc is needed. But I don't think Nintendo plans on competing with the other consoles and haven't since the GameCube. At least not in terms of *edit*having majority market share. I think their business plan is to combine the portable and home side to make it as profitable as possible for them. Which I think they have done.
Granted sound choices could have been better, Bluetooth options sure. And having vc is needed. But I don't think Nintendo plans on competing with the other consoles and haven't since the GameCube. At least not in terms of *edit*having majority market share. I think their business plan is to combine the portable and home side to make it as profitable as possible for them. Which I think they have done.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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When this was you when your
This is exactly their market approach - a failed market approach because of what I posted. All along they made clear that this was a home console and a portable. This was their messaging. To attain that, they need to have parity across both platforms. They touted massive 3rd party support compared to previous generations. Again, stating clearly they no longer wanted to be the odd man out - meaning no, they were indeed competing with the other consoles and trying to get back into that status. Their end goal was to combine both portable and console and have it penetrate/successful market as their Wii did.
Rather than slowly ramp down 3DS, they introduced a new line. Rather than build an online service around VC, they started selling retro pi classics with roms. Rather than match feature sets, they launched an early access console due to falling market share in a panic. Nintendo, with this device, did about everything they could have done wrong and will continue to do wrong when it comes to their goals of merging portable/home console, with Wii success. That's the end goal. That WAS the end goal I should say. Now, they, and others, will back pedal into something it isn't nor ever was supposed to be in the first place.
The above paragraph will be the post mortem on the Switch in 2019 when they admit the abject failure of the device.
Now the biggest issue is what happens after the next failure here. The Wii U was a failure. The Switch will be a failure. And who will lead the company in a new direction? NOJ executives need to retire, and NOA needs to take over all decision making processes.
This is exactly their market approach - a failed market approach because of what I posted. All along they made clear that this was a home console and a portable. This was their messaging. To attain that, they need to have parity across both platforms. They touted massive 3rd party support compared to previous generations. Again, stating clearly they no longer wanted to be the odd man out - meaning no, they were indeed competing with the other consoles and trying to get back into that status. Their end goal was to combine both portable and console and have it penetrate/successful market as their Wii did.
Rather than slowly ramp down 3DS, they introduced a new line. Rather than build an online service around VC, they started selling retro pi classics with roms. Rather than match feature sets, they launched an early access console due to falling market share in a panic. Nintendo, with this device, did about everything they could have done wrong and will continue to do wrong when it comes to their goals of merging portable/home console, with Wii success. That's the end goal. That WAS the end goal I should say. Now, they, and others, will back pedal into something it isn't nor ever was supposed to be in the first place.
The above paragraph will be the post mortem on the Switch in 2019 when they admit the abject failure of the device.
Now the biggest issue is what happens after the next failure here. The Wii U was a failure. The Switch will be a failure. And who will lead the company in a new direction? NOJ executives need to retire, and NOA needs to take over all decision making processes.
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I could be wrong but I seem to remember them specifically saying that they weren't going to compete in the power race for consoles any more after the GameCube. And that they are only interested in making systems that play games. Hence the no Netflix etc. The no vc is still a horrible choice, my guess is it will launch limited before xmas or early Jan due to holiday sales. But so far the system seems to have life, a good mix of games that are better on console mode (Zelda) and some that are amazing in portable mode (golf story). Along with more third party support longer into the systems life than the Wii u had.
And just because they introduced the 2ds which has a huge game catalog doesn't mean devs aren't going to make switch games. And some in fact have been switching over as pointed out earlier.
I think at this point we will have to wait and see. I'm at work so replies might be shorter and take longer etc.
McCheese
SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
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