Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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1. I agree with Mughal that it's just vaporware right now.
2. Disagree with your assessment if niche MMOs. EVE is niche and has done alright. I think the real problem with MMOs today is an attempt to appeal to everyone. Blizzard gets away with it because they have massive cash do they can afford Pokemon and Raiding in the same game. I think the future of MMOs, Blizz excepted, is niche MMOs.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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yea, I guess we can look to any project that doesn't have a big wallet behind it and say Vaporware. technically it could be true but that's not a fun opinion in an industry we so desperately need the smaller projects to succeed. Not that blind optimism is great either but I said all along I'm hoping the awareness of this project raises some eyebrows in a good way.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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It is vapor untill and unless Brad gets at least a million from the kickstarter. A million won't pay for the MMO, but a million plus subscription based Alpha and beta access just might. Newco might consider having a medium reward level for alpha and a minimal reward level for beta (with breakouts into the earlier and later alphas/beta e.g. FnF Alpha 250, Alpha 100, Third Beta 50, Open Beta 25). And on top of that have a 5.00 monthly fee for participants going forward (regular fee of 14.99 not until live), so there is a steady stream of income to support development.
Now to make things fair for us players, Newco should carry that fee forward and subtract it from live. Say Quaid buys First Beta $75. He then plays on and off for 12 months until it goes live. In total he pays the $5 fee 8 times (didn't play for four months during the beta period). Once live starts his first 8 months are only $10 on month 9 he starts paying $15.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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EQ cost 7 million in todays dollars. Brad is not going to be able to raise 7 million on kickstarter. And if the game is a lot smaller than vanilla EQ there won't be much for anyone to do at release, though I suppose Brad could keep on hanging a beta label on the game forever. A whole host of sins are forgiven for betas.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I'm on the side that will probably be throwing money at this and still think they're unlikely to get enough funding for an MMO. I do think Mughals choice of words was unwise even if the message is valid, but going all "you take that back or I'll cut ya" is pointless.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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The Garriot and whatever-that-DaoC-guy was called kickstarters both got like 2 mill, I'm guessing McQuaid is good for that much. Not for 7 mill though. And I also dont think the cost for making EQ adjusted by inflation is enough. DaoC guy actually got 5 mill total from his own stash plus investors I think? But we dont even want investors because it'll kill the integrity of the game a year down the road. So where does that leave us? Hoping that this project can pull a small Chris Roberts?
As far as scope of the game goes, it's gotta be in the ballpark of EQ. A kickstarter for just Faydwer (5ish zones with 3 town and 3 dungeons) is not gonna fly.
Skanda
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Wasn't too long ago people were having epileptic fits over EQNL selling alpha/beta access for a FTP game and you think a subscription tacked onto alpha/beta will go over well?
Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Bruman
Golden Squire
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In EQ they wrote their own everythings too - now they're using Unity 3D which saves a lot of time (aka money).
The costs are 100% not comparable.
Skanda
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That's an already released game that has an established player base and has no subscription required. In no way comparable to BradCo's new game nor comparable to Tad10's brilliant "just tack a sub onto alpha and watch the money hats roll in" scenario.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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People either have to pay up or shut up if they want an improved EQ. This game was never going to be FTP and was always going to cost us players more than it should. I think Creed is optimistic on the 2 million, but fine. That means they have to come up with another 5 million between inception and delivery as a live game. Maybe modern engines, tools and free player contributions can reduce that total but not by much. $5 per month probably isn't enough. Without an Angel investor I don't see how they do it except multiple kickstarters or a alpha/beta sub fee and I think the sub fee is less distracting.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Yes. It is fucking brilliant because you get what you paid for in reduced subscription fees for the amount you paid in beta once the game goes live. Oh, and you also get a completed game.
Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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You are right of course, but even so, it shows that there are a lot of people willing to pay money to play a game they like, even if its an alpha. Also, a successful KS is really only the beginning of the fundraising. Continued pledge options on your own homepage and possibly steam greenlight when the time is right can easily double the KS money (at least if they have a real game to show/play).
Skanda
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I agree with the first part. I'm one of the one's who bought into Landmark already so I can't stand here and shit on people who would put down money for a Kickstarter or pay for a base access package to Brad's game. I do think that a lot of people who would otherwise be friendly toward Brad's game would balk if you introduced a subscription requirement to the Alpha. Once it's released, sure, anything goes. But after reading all the threads here on this board with people bitching about Kickstarter/Early Access in general and shitting all over SoE for the Landmark cash grab I can only imagine the toxic shit that will be flung if you have to pay monthly for alpha access.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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World of difference between giant co making money grab and small co desperate for funding. The players who want the game will pay if you structure the deal properly thus my suggestion of equivalent reduction of paid-in subscription once game goes live. There are other possibilities such as in late beta you can keep your character for live. Or early alpha you can reserve your character / guild name for live. Character eligibility for artifact items like a manastone equivalent. Yada, yada, yada.
Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be or shouldn't be done.
Using vaporware as a term is so vague and up for interpretation. I think it's funny that people are making assumptions about the team based on a few names I pulled from a hat. The truth is you're going to find very few people willing to leave one risky job for an even riskier job unless they're extremely comfortable with their financial situation. The team is bigger than my little list and there's at least one other person I'm almost certain is on the team and another Brad is trying to grab.
If you want to call this project vapor, that applies to roughly 99 percent of other Kickstarter projects. I reserve that title for long-in development games that stand very little chance of ever releasing like The Last Guardian. Technically I couple of iterations of EQN reached vapor status.
This project is fresh off the ground and has a tremendous amount of obstacles to hurdle, but that's the nature of Kickstarter games or risky ventures in general. You're banking and crossing your fingers on a market youthinkexists and youthinkyou can satisfy.
While everyone dreamed of under the table deals with Sony, the more likely scenario happened and they picked an engine designed for small teams with limited funding. There will be sacrifices because of it but it also means that at the very least, there's a chance that this happens. Based on what I've heard (and we all know it's happening in January anyways), this thing is launching very, very soon.
Maybe I'm playing the optimist, but until the game has a name, a website and I see what progress has been made, I'll avoid calling it vaporware.
If you want to call this project vapor, that applies to roughly 99 percent of other Kickstarter projects. I reserve that title for long-in development games that stand very little chance of ever releasing like The Last Guardian. Technically I couple of iterations of EQN reached vapor status.
This project is fresh off the ground and has a tremendous amount of obstacles to hurdle, but that's the nature of Kickstarter games or risky ventures in general. You're banking and crossing your fingers on a market youthinkexists and youthinkyou can satisfy.
While everyone dreamed of under the table deals with Sony, the more likely scenario happened and they picked an engine designed for small teams with limited funding. There will be sacrifices because of it but it also means that at the very least, there's a chance that this happens. Based on what I've heard (and we all know it's happening in January anyways), this thing is launching very, very soon.
Maybe I'm playing the optimist, but until the game has a name, a website and I see what progress has been made, I'll avoid calling it vaporware.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
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He should make it FTP with microtransactions. Don't want to make that corpse run? 5 Dollar plz!