Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,336
14,000
I thought the end game was to release a game!?
The end game of the KS convo. Let's try not to play dumb.

Are they really just trying to quantify interest? Do they believe they can make the game on their own? Are they fishing for a publisher? Is there already a silent partner? Do they just want to fund their developers with this money for a short while until they can secure private capital?
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,767
617
The end game of the KS convo. Let's try not to play dumb.

Are they really just trying to quantify interest? Do they believe they can make the game on their own? Are they fishing for a publisher? Is there already a silent partner? Do they just want to fund their developers with this money for a short while until they can secure private capital?
man.. we've talked so much about all this.. but here is part of their plan since you probably don't visit the KS.. too busy on those Tranny forums!?

A Note on Post Kickstarter Funding

This has come up in a few places so we want to make sure we address this. Our project starts with Kickstarter but that is not the end of it. If we get funded the campaign will continue on our website while we continue game development. When we sat down to look at what we wanted in the game we first had to consider our resources and what we would do with the money you all donate. What we came up with is a list of features that we feel are required to produce the core experience while allowing you to continue to back us like so many other projects have.

We believe that there is room for this type of game in the industry and, while we would all love to get everything at the minimum fund price, we know it will take more to include all of them. So please do not fret over those stretch goals because the opportunity to get them is not going away and neither is our need for your support. So lets consider this a call to arms we need everyone, who is willing, to rise up and get the word out on every social front you can. Lets ring the bells and bang the drums, separate we are but a lowly design team and some backers, together we are the heroes of Pantheon and the time has come for us to rise and make Terminus real.

Salim Grant, Director of Development

I can't recall if the team said it or it was us but Ideally they(maybe us) hope that a successful KS will bring publishers attention but also give them the leverage they need to keep full control over the product and it's release..
 

Mur_sl

shitlord
234
0
/SNIP

Don't reject soloing outright. Talk more along the lines of how EQ was (Which I know you've been doing)--say "mobs are so difficult, that grouping is the safest, more efficient way to defeat them. However, particularly skilled adventurers, with well chosen gear and spells, can challenge themselves to overcome them."

See, the Dark Souls crowd are essentially the same people that were solo chanters, shamans and necros+Duo partners (Monks, SKs, Clerics ect). Pushing the boundary of what they could do by memorizing precise timings, patterns and extreme usage of their class abilities. EQ was so "free" about letting people kill high end stuff, that, in fact, on the p1999 EMU this community of solo artists still play this meta game (And they existed on the live realms, too.)---P99 Solo Artist Challenge. Now, there are benefits to killing these mobs sometimes, but if you notice, for a lot of them? It's just the fact that they are hard.
Absolutely spot on. I was one of those players who sought out tough mobs to attempt to solo on both my SK and my Shammy, and it is something I have missed terribly in every game since EQ. Don't make "solo" content, (fuck that weak shit), just make content. Let the player decide what to solo, and make the player pay the price for failure as well.

Bring these aspects up to your market. Tell them your game is built to be as free as possible. The mobs are so difficult that many will rely on groups. But there will be ways for the clever player to use his abilities, and his intelligence to exploit the mobs, and bring them down--making a name for himself as a "loner". Really play up the "assassin against all odds" angle. Because that's the type of game play Dark Souls taps into well, and there was MOST certainly an aspect of it within EQ.
Yes Yes Yes! I solo because it feeds my Ego. I like to do shit other people think is either crazy, or a waste of time. I'm an MMO big game hunter. Feed the Ego Brad, we all like to feel L337 in our own way. Lithose is spot on with this.
 

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
This KS is definitely weird from what most seem to be. I thought it typically went like this:

-You have independent funding, and / or work nights on your own time.
-Eventually you have a demo-ish game. Some rudimentary systems are place, a couple of areas are semi-fleshed out. People can get a good vibe of the game, even though nothing is final.
-You calculate what it takes to go full-time and bring the game fruition.
-You start your KickStarter with that amount as the goal.

Instead, what we have is the guys got laid off, unfortunately. So they worked a few months sans-pay, and now need to get paid again (understandably). I wouldn't go long without income either. They're hoping to get that with a Kickstarter.

Just seems like they don't understand Kickstarter (or maybe I don't?). The guys should get jobs, make this a project of passion for a year for their free time if they really believe in it. THEN launch your Kickstarter, with the amount to FINISH it.

Note that I'm not blaming them if that doesn't appeal to them. I'm a developer. I write almost no code once I'm home. I'm not interested in it typically after doing it all week. I have a family, other hobbies, blah blah blah. I'm not passionate enough about any other ideas right now to devote that much of my free time to it.

This is just so risky. The amount of the KS succeeds is just to get something to show off. That's a lot to ask of people. Kickstarter (again, to my understanding) is about seeing projects come to life. The people behind it have to put up a lot of risk and hard work (their free time for a year full of late nights), before asking the general populace to pony up money.

All that said - I pledged day one. But the entire project still scares me, knowing that the $800k is only to get to a point to seek A LOT of further funding.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,231
901
Vandyn_sl said:
I think what some have an issue with is that some of the stretch goals are basically core MMO tenants. Like, it the game only makes 3m, well that kills PVP, monks, bards and a continent Heck, you need 2.5m just to get crafting. The point that I 'think' is trying to be made is these things shouldn't be 'stretch' goals, they should be in the game no matter what. I look at something like The Repopulation and those stretch goals make sense for an MMO. Nothing one would feel 'required' but very nice to have.
Yeah.. I have never really understood the Pantheon stretch goals. Pretty much if we raise $800,000 we get Diablo. If we raise $6.7 millions, we get an MMO. Also, what's up with getting our own server to share with our friends? I don't want a server to share with my friends. I want a MMO that takes the best of the old, and rid themselves of the more extreme conveniences of the new and make the game.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Yeah.. I have never really understood the Pantheon stretch goals. Pretty much if we raise $800,000 we get Diablo. If we raise $6.7 millions, we get an MMO.
It's more, if you raise 6.7 they feel they can get all those ideas in the game, polished and complete. If they get to 800k, they still have all those features on their to-do list, but who knows if they'll get in by launch and how complete they'll be.

In reality, if they raise 6.7 mil you'll get a game. If they raise 800k you'll get a team starting a game and having to rely on outside assistance to finish it.

The more you know... doo-doo-doo-doooooo
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
In reality, if they raise 6.7 mil you'll get a game. If they raise 800k you'll get a team starting a game and having to rely on outside assistance to finish it.

The more you know... doo-doo-doo-doooooo
Pretty much this, but I think the numbers are 4 to 5m for basic game, 6.7 for game on ks, and 8m for the game brad wants to make (he gave 8m number last night)
 

Legaeveth

Silver Knight of the Realm
137
26
Nerd rage because games aren't going as planned for some. If you want to complain about a genre that is being over looked try and find any good RTS games these days its darn near impossible. MMO's however are in the same boat only time and rehashing of old ideas can fix it. We'll see how this one goes if it can get legs to take off (which I hope it does).
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,231
901
It's more, if you raise 6.7 they feel they can get all those ideas in the game, polished and complete. If they get to 800k, they still have all those features on their to-do list, but who knows if they'll get in by launch and how complete they'll be.

In reality, if they raise 6.7 mil you'll get a game. If they raise 800k you'll get a team starting a game and having to rely on outside assistance to finish it.

The more you know... doo-doo-doo-doooooo
I wasn't being literal. It was a poor attempt at sarcasm, humor or whatever. What I really meant was, Brad could rework his KS and it look much more relevant to what they are attempting to accomplish. The KS, especially the tiers just seem a bit odd. I know what he means but at the surface looks a bit out of sorts.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,525
12,565
popsicledeath_sl said:
We're still waiting.
If you're revealing RL info here Ut, I'm going to be temp banning you for some time. I'll give you a chance to edit your post, do it fast.
You are going to be waiting a long fucking time. Have him lift that comment from my back and let's have at it. Until then, shut the fuck up.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,767
617
Utnayan_sl said:
It's fairly simple. Smedley isn't going to cover expenses to start hiring and get the project off the ground. If it hits kickstarter and that happens, I'm sure he will be more than willing to back fund over and beyond what the public put in. This happens * all * the time with kickstarter. And we all know who will publish it anyway and take a cut. That much is obvious. The problem stems from SOE not risking one ounce of funding in his ideas for initial demos, because they don't believe in the guy - but will be more than willing to take the money if he proves them wrong and needs a publisher.

Typical business, yes. Nothing new. What astounds me is no one can just flat out be honest about it.
That doesn't mean he couldnt of lent them the engine. It would of been in his interest since A. Most on the team has used it and B. If he(Smed) were to buy it he could easily put existing SoE devs on the project since they all use the engine.. It just doesn't make sense to me..

If Brad and team are successful there will be plenty of Publishers kicking down his door. SoE would be no exception. The relationship they already have makes it more likely he chooses SoE but that doesn't mean they are doing jack shit for this game now, which they aren't. Personally I'd rather Brad go to Trion or something and stick it to SoE for not backing this project with a small team.
 

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
16,525
12,565
That doesn't mean he couldnt of lent them the engine. It would of been in his interest since A. Most on the team has used it and B. If he(Smed) were to buy it he could easily put existing SoE devs on the project since they all use the engine.. It just doesn't make sense to me..

If Brad and team are successful there will be plenty of Publishers kicking down his door. SoE would be no exception. The relationship they already have makes it more likely he chooses SoE but that doesn't mean they are doing jack shit for this game now, which they aren't. Personally I'd rather Brad go to Trion or something and stick to SoE for not backing this project with a small team.
Unity is essentially free without any conditions or implied control.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,767
617
Anyway.. Hopefully monday is a good reveal of the class system in PC Gamer.. Hoping the team has some additional info ready in case another shit storm of confusion starts.

It would be interesting to know the amount of people who went there intending to pledge but decided not to b/c of the KS layout.. I have a friend that did that... He'll probably back but his initial impression was bad:-(
 

Zefah

<Gold Donor>
2,402
7,437
So sick of people in Kickstarter threads shouting at the top of their lungs the equivalent of, "they're pulling the wool over your eyes! don't be fooled!"

Most of reasonable people know the risks and know what we're getting into. We know there is a good chance that the project may never come to fruition, but we're willing to spend some of our money on the chance that it may.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,231
901
Looks like we are going to get some info this week, especially in regards to lore.

I hope we get more concept art. Would love to see race/class concept art.

Brad you going to cover the primary races and/or there plans for races unfamiliar to us?
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,767
617
The KS is a part of the totality of the circumstances for me. I like the game idea, I like the team, and I also want to see old school concepts resurrected.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
595
I wasn't being literal. It was a poor attempt at sarcasm, humor or whatever. What I really meant was, Brad could rework his KS and it look much more relevant to what they are attempting to accomplish. The KS, especially the tiers just seem a bit odd. I know what he means but at the surface looks a bit out of sorts.
I think the current issue with the tiers (and others have noted this) is that with the additional unlimited tiers the later tiers that say things like "all previous tiers included" don't make a hell of a lot of sense, read literally it would include multiple digital downloads. They need to individually list everything that's in each tier.

Also they need the tester + lifetime tier.
 

Heallun

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,100
1,073
Regardless if the game will be good or not, this KS is kind of a travesty. They needed something...anything concrete before they went asking for cash to fund it. The stretch goals feel like jokes...We don't know what the core classes are and we're adding even more as stretch goals?

Utnayan may be a bit confrontational, but he's absolutely right that this needed to be quite a bit more fleshed out before asking for cash. How one fleshes something out as rigorous as an mmo before having cash is a mystery to me, however. Pathfinder / Shroud of the Avatar seemed to manage it. Neither have delivered, though.

I do feel this is about the only good MMO on the horizon. It seems it will be that way for the forseeable future, so donating is indeed a noble goal. I just...wish it was a better KS.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,782
8,267
I think the current issue with the tiers (and others have noted this) is that with the additional unlimited tiers the later tiers that say things like "all previous tiers included" don't make a hell of a lot of sense, read literally it would include multiple digital downloads. They need to individually list everything that's in each tier.

Also they need the tester + lifetime tier.
Lifetime sub should just be a $150 upgrade available to any tier.

You'd sell a ton of them