Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Utnayan_sl said:

We could start with some sort of group of peers that have had successful kickstarter launches which will garner an actual return for the money invested. It doesn't need to be much, but if someone cannot be arsed enough to come up with a simple design document, they surely shouldn't be allowed to go out and ask for money.

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This has been repeated by about a quarter of the posters here. There is healthy debate, you know.

If only you had posted just this initially, and not the rest of the insider, I got contacts, super spy, silly bullshit. The simple truth is if you do, I'm sure they'd appreciate you not being a cocksucker about it on the interwebz.

This KS really is weak, especially compared to Jacobs and Garriot's which as other insider's we'll use as the measuring stick. Both those games had an initial Vision(?) and sense of urgency. Who'd a thunk Mcquaid would ever be outVisioned(?)?

Zaven_sl said:

Nope. If i want to donate to a fairy tale or a figment of someone's imagination with MY money, that's MY prerogative. The sooner you come to grips with this, the better of you will be.

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You sure can, but if you come on a message board to tell people what you did with your money, then have to be ready to receive all responses.

I think it's cute that people are telling others how to spend their money.

Maybe the people suggesting a peer review on pooling investment capital would be willing to do the same thing for people who provide charitable, political, or religious contributions.

bayr_sl said:

I actually do, it kind of goes against the main principle of Kickstarter, where people choose what to fund or not based on what they're shown. You can put up a terrible Kickstarter for your MMO with crayon drawings for concept art and ask for 10 million and people will just ignore it. If people are dumb enough to part with their money then it's on them. If people back this project it's nothing to me but it's certainly not getting my money.

I agree if you set up a Kickstarter you should have minimum requirements to meet on your end to make sure people know what you are doing, and that's ultimately the failure here. People who hear about this are picking it apart because of all the things they've done wrong, so I think the system is working.

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This is exactly correct.

Oversight and Going Pro - Kickstarter: Funding 'Creative Independence' | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

when some of those projects really blow up, you have someone who is intending to make a project something small and simple and suddenly they have a business when it's all done and they have to learn a lot of new skills. So I've seen that be a challenge, but what we found is that the way it works now, which is backers holding creators accountable, just require them to be transparent, to be communicative, to talk about the process. But that's worked pretty well.

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I've already said my piece on how I feel about the transparency of this project

Yes, the KS is far from perfect, the whole funding concept is extremly optimistic on their part (unless they have already done some "behind the scenes deals" to secure more money for a successful KS). The one thing that makes it acceptable for now (at least for me) is what Brad has said himself: He put what is left of his reputation into this. If it fails, or if there are shady deals making this something that was never intended just to get it published, then his reputation is 100% gone forever. And he knows it. What will he do then? Hes not rich, he has to work i guess. Who will give him a job in this industry? Smed? I think no one, for the rest of his live.

I feel bad for all the negative nellies in this thread, $45 for me is a small price to pay for HOPE of a turn around in our beloved genre, maybe it works out maybe it won't. It's not a big loss if it does not. To have the chance to be the actual change we all know is needed is rare, it's a chance I am willing to take.

We all know the risk of failure here, I assume we are adults, if I want to give brad some money for a chance at a product I think I might love, I am going to do it. No amount of utter shit posting on the internet will change that.

To the naysayers, why not try to be part of the solution? If it's not for you, that's fine, but we certainly dot need 30 posts from you explaining that you don't think it will work, your opinion is just not that important.

Convo_sl said:

It would be interesting to know the amount of people who went there intending to pledge but decided not to b/c of the KS layout.. I have a friend that did that... He'll probably back but his initial impression was bad:-(

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This is my issue. Posted on my Vanguard+ guild forum and people are dubious, then made more dubious. Basically, the only chance is I follow the project and keep reporting and if it's not great they think I'm a douche.

They all need to get on the same page. Mission statement. A quick and dirty Motto. Summary of the philosophy of the project. Summary of the design intentions (how they'll create the philosophy). Then talk about details not even in detail, but that all tie directly back into every other step. Everything they say you should be able to go to the mission statement and say 'yes, that's right' and right now it's all muddled. We don't even need to know these things, but they do, and we have to think they do, and right now I'm still not sure.

tad10_sl said:

If the game is funded Dellorer better be a god in one of the pantheons. You will owe us that Mr. McQuaid, maybe

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You ripped me for that idea... now you take it dammit Tad, LoL

Ut certainly wasn't the only one bashing VG. Pretty much anyone who played beta (other than the Silky Venom fellatio crew), or anyone who was getting tired of Everquest's model and realized the potential for instancing and other conveniences to eliminate a whole shitload of frustrating problems and didn't want to see a repeat of the same mistakes that caused so much pain over the years. Racing for content is only fun if you are the winner. How long is everyone else going to stick around? And if the competition is what you enjoyed, what is left once you have won? For FoH, the "competition" was just twats that would sometimes take up key camps for shit they weren't likely to see until the next expansion rolled around and we moved on. Such drama! Shit was like watching the Yankees play the special olympic t-ball team. They didn't have a chance of winning and all they could accomplish was wasting our time. Beating these people down didn't make me happy or make me feel like some kind of badass, it just bored me to death waiting for them to hurry up and wipe so we could waltz in and take the loot.

That's all crap that never needs to happen again. Players should not be forced to be enemies. Unless they are actually capable of killing one another (FFA PVP server for the aspies) or in a limited fashion (Kazzak)

Of course every word of this contradicts nearly every post in this thread. Because the aspie sociopaths who only enjoy games if they are griefing others just want a new game to feel superior in. Likely because the first time around, they were the ones getting shit on by a guild like mine.

Soygen_sl said:

Wow, this thread went a bit retarded since I got out of work last night.

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When has this thread ever not been retarded?

tad10_sl said:

Did I? My apologies.

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No need for apology, glad to have you on board the "Dellorer" means something in Pantheon club/train.

tad10_sl said:

Oh, and since you've seem to have forgotten: Hartsman was responsible for Rift which was a trainwreck of a WoW-clone of an MMO, I don't think we need more of those.

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He didn't design Rift, though, right? He was the producer/ceo, which is way different. Hell, I don't even think he personally liked Rift all that much. He had a job to do, and he did it well, got the project completed, within their own expectations even if we thought it sucked (and some of it definitely did), and out the door a fairly polished, playable game.

Hartsman would be awesome for this project. He's a pro in front of the camera/mic. He seems to be one of the few in the industry who either had or learned business skills and wasn't given the opportunity to use those skills, and has to great effect.

The first thing Hartsman would probably do is demand a pretty concrete vision of what game, exactly, they're actually wanting/trying to make. Then I'd trust him to do his best to make sure that vision was realized. And he's a pro at translating all that developer talk into things the general public can understand and get excited about (and he's also pretty good at selling things without just resorting to false promises, hah).

Kreugen_sl said:

Players should not be forced to be enemies.

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So every sport ever is a bad idea? Football? Poker? Tic-tac-toe?

Humans are a competitive species, if you want to tar all of us with the "aspie sociopath" brush, go ahead, but you'll end up tarring 80% of every guy ever (and a lot of girls too).

Sure there are other reasons to play EQ besides competition for spawns (hanging out and chatting while grinding is big one for me, not so much griefing), but sure racing for a mob is an adrenaline rush you don't get in instanced MMO.

Tuco_sl said:

If you guys want to go over Utnayan's vague and amorphous insight (He really moved away from being 100% confident that SOE was secretly funding Pantheon) please use this thread:Utnayan's Never Was Thread

If you want to complain about the moderation or the idea of a developer being a virtual partner with our community use this thread:Ask Amod - Page 355

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Yeah this thread is strictly for terrible MMO ideas, rose colored glasses, and general shilling.

Come on guys, only 800k on a kickstarter before we get an actual business plan!

*edit*

I'm gonna get a kickstarter going to start a business selling cans of air in china.

tad10_sl said:

So every sport ever is a bad idea? Football? Poker? Tic-tac-toe?

Humans are a competitive species, if you want to tar all of us with the "aspie sociopath" brush, go ahead, but you'll end up tarring 80% of every guy ever (and a lot of girls too).

Sure there are other reasons to play EQ besides competition for spawns (hanging out and chatting while grinding is big one for me, not so much griefing), but sure racing for a mob is an adrenaline rush you don't get in instanced MMO.

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There are much better ways to compete than the classic "wait for the other guy to engage trash, run past them and kill boss" and all the other tired crap that required a third party moderator (cs staff) to sort out.

Competition in MMOs is crap. There are much better ways to swing your dick around in a video game.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Yeah this thread is strictly for terrible MMO ideas, rose colored glasses, and general shilling.

Come on guys, only 800k on a kickstarter before we get an actual business plan!

*edit*

I'm gonna get a kickstarter going to start a business selling cans of air in china.

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Seriously. These boards are quickly becoming an absolute farce.

Kreugen_sl said:

There are much better ways to compete than the classic "wait for the other guy to engage trash, run past them and kill boss" and all the other tired crap that required a third party moderator (cs staff) to sort out.

Competition in MMOs is crap. There are much better ways to swing your dick around in a video game.

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Are you just assuming all raids will be contested? I can't remember if they were talked about at all..