Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Voldeth · Jan 19, 2014

Convo_sl said:
Should we really rage some folks and go arm-chair mode? How do you make challenging? I'm not a fan of the DDR type...

Don't get me wrong, I loved EQ. I think it did a lot of things brilliantly and I have a lot of great memories: unrest trains, friends falling down the well in befallen, lguk camping for my fbss, lodizal spawn monopolization, I could go on and on. Hell, I 4 box'd in EQ grinding countless AAs so they must have done something right. You'd have to be really dense to think that any of that wasdifficultthough.

My problem with this kickstar so far is that they're trying to tug on my fond memories while yelling, "WE CAN MAKE IT EVEN GREATER & MORE FUN THEN YOU REMEMBER!" Unfortunately, I don't think that they even understand why I found it as fun as I did.

gogojira_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
Yes. I noticed that a couple times. Not just the 10k pledge either.

And gogo I couldn't help but post my concerns in that thread on your site. Too many folks telling Ben "it's great keep it up". The last thing the KS site needs is more full updates like that one.

I'd never shun honest criticism. Obviously you can file the whole thing under "fan site" but I'll never be able to turn off my critical nature nor would I want other people to feel like they can't express themselves. I know Amaru agrees. It's fine for people to cheerlead, but people should expect criticism when it's due.

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Of course all this bitching I, and many of you , are doing about the way the KS has been handled ,is only because we genuinely want the game that Brad wants to make. If I didn't fund it and want it , I'd just be mildly enjoying the trainwreck that we have been trying to avoid since the KS went live. I think (and hope) Brad understands that.

Aleatha · Jan 19, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
Of course all this bitching I, and many of you , are doing about the way the KS has been handled ,is only because we genuinely want the game that Brad wants to make. If I didn't fund it and want it , I'd just be mildly enjoying the trainwreck that we have been trying to avoid since the KS went live. I think (and hope) Brad understands that.

Yea, I probably wouldn't bother to complain if I didn't truely want this to work. I have been looking for a reason to up my pledge to the $250 tier but they just aren't giving it to me so far.

Trathos_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Aleatha_sl said:
Yea, I probably wouldn't bother to complain if I didn't truely want this to work. I have been looking for a reason to up my pledge to the $250 tier but they just aren't giving it to me so far.

"@Maquiame - that is a pretty awesome idea. Gonna talk to the rest of the team about it. @Tiers - tier review coming very soon - we're hearing you! @Dosi - we have a lot of combat info coming soon. In fact, we have a whole week during this kickstarter dedicated to combat information. --Ben.

Hopefully they can get that tier review out early this week sometime.

Lysis · Jan 19, 2014

I don't think EQ was difficult because of the inherent challenge of each encounter. EQ was difficult because it was punishing. It punished players for making errors. It punished players for dying. It punished groups for wiping deep in lucrative errors. It punished guilds for not being as organized as the competition. Failure had a price.

That punishment is what made it exciting to me. The punishment made the close calls exhilarating and success awesome. It made strong nerves a barrier of entry. As the punishment diminished, so too did my enjoyment of EQ.

I loved the new server experience. I played on many new servers to recapture it. I have a lot of recollections of guilds attempting to break fully populated planes for the first time (for those guilds, not necessarily the server) during the prep-SOL era. Some wiped and needed rescue. The potential to lose everything created true harrow that enabled truly heroic rescues.

gogojira_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
Of course all this bitching I, and many of you , are doing about the way the KS has been handled ,is only because we genuinely want the game that Brad wants to make. If I didn't fund it and want it , I'd just be mildly enjoying the trainwreck that we have been trying to avoid since the KS went live. I think (and hope) Brad understands that.

Basically. I think I'm a bit different from the norm here in that I can go years with playing an MMO and not care but the moment one has my interest I get totally absorbed in it. That hasn't really done me any favors in recent history but it's an all new gaming world and things like Kickstarter have emerged. I see a group of guys wanting to recreate one of the few MMO experiences I've ever truly, truly loved and for better or worse, I'm absorbed yet again. I'll let people have their gripes, concerns, bashing, trolling; whatever, that's their prerogative. I see it as potential to recapture my interest in the genre.

It's super old school and some people hate that or claim anyone who wants it is stuck in the past. For me, old school is the only thing that ever truly worked for me. Since then I've mostly just never bothered with MMOs to any serious amount. It's nice to see a few companies trying something new (I know some people are disgusted with EQN; I'm reserving judgement but at least it's different) because I can't take one more fucking WoW clone. Props to the user here who gave me that Wildstar beta key because he saved me $60 on another boring ass MMO.

So yeah, I'm with you. I'm critical because I want Pantheon to happen. Bad.

Trathos_sl · Jan 19, 2014

gogojira_sl said:
Basically. I think I'm a bit different from the norm here in that I can go years with playing an MMO and not care but the moment one has my interest I get totally absorbed in it. That hasn't really done me any favors in recent history but it's an all new gaming world and things like Kickstarter have emerged. I see a group of guys wanting to recreate one of the few MMO experiences I've ever truly, truly loved and for better or worse, I'm absorbed yet again. I'll let people have their gripes, concerns, bashing, trolling; whatever, that's their prerogative. I see it as potential to recapture my interest in the genre.

It's super old school and some people hate that or claim anyone who wants it is stuck in the past. For me, old school is the only thing that ever truly worked for me. Since then I've mostly just never bothered with MMOs to any serious amount. It's nice to see a few companies trying something new (I know some people are disgusted with EQN; I'm reserving judgement but at least it's different) because I can't take one more fucking WoW clone. Props to the user here who gave me that Wildstar beta key because he saved me $60 on another boring ass MMO.

So yeah, I'm with you. I'm critical because I want Pantheon to happen. Bad.

Definitely hear where your coming from, and glad that your passionate. I think I'm more on the opposite end of the spectrum. I usually try to be positive about things (that's my outlook on life I guess). Good criticism definitely has its place and is well needed for sure. (If everyone thought a like...it would be a boring ass world). I'm like you, I just want this thing to happen, as there really is nothing else out there for me anymore.

Vandyn · Jan 19, 2014

Can someone explain the private server stretch goal ? What's that all about? You'll have private servers all over the place (splitting a niche community even more )?

bigdogchris_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Vandyn_sl said:
Can someone explain the private server tier? What's that all about? You'll have private servers all over the place (splitting a niche community even more )?

Ihighlydoubt it means that you run your own world apart from the company (like EQ EMU), like some people think. They still need to patch the game and collect revenue.

I'm pretty sure you will still have to pay a subscription, but the difference is when you log into the game you can choose to play on the "private" server that someone manages. A major guild could 'instance' their own server. I'm almost sure there will be an additional cost involved (like a management fee) that someone would have to pay.

shabushabu · Jan 19, 2014

bigdogchris_sl said:
Ihighlydoubt it means that you run your own world apart from the company (like EQ EMU), like some people think. They still need to patch the game and collect revenue.

I'm pretty sure you will still have to pay a subscription, but the difference is when you log into the game you can choose to play on the "private" server that someone manages. A major guild could 'instance' their own server. I'm almost sure there will be an additional cost involved (like a management fee) that someone would have to pay.

Different rule sets are always desired, private servers could offer that in a bigger way.

Vandyn · Jan 19, 2014

bigdogchris_sl said:
Ihighlydoubt it means that you run your own world apart from the company (like EQ EMU), like some people think. They still need to patch the game and collect revenue.

I'm pretty sure you will still have to pay a subscription, but the difference is when you log into the game you can choose to play on the "private" server that someone manages. A major guild could 'instance' their own server. I'm almost sure there will be an additional cost involved (like a management fee) that someone would have to pay.

Seperate instance = seperate world or else what's the point?

gogojira_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Ikik explained their current UGC philosophy onPJP(sorry, not trying to promote it but we've actually had some decent dev quotes).

"The current plan for UGC servers works like this. Any player will be able to run their own server that we'll host. They'll pay a monthly fee to have the server up that will contain a subset of our servers content. The maximum number of players allowed on the server will be the only variable in determining the monthly price.

They'll be able to use the tools we use to create new content for their server, and they'll be able to create new levels and art assets to import into their server.

Server admins will also be able to sell assets like zones, monsters, etc to other server admins to put on their own servers.

If other players decide to spend the majority of their play time on another players custom server, the admin of that server will receive a percentage of the revenue generated from that player.

But the key thing is, you'll be able to design the quest, boss, or zones you want, and share them with your friends and the rest of the world. And if you do a good job at it you could make money in the process."

Aradune_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Whidon1_sl said:
Maybe this is beyond the pale, but since the mods have called us "a virtual partner" with this project maybe we could have a thread coordinate our schilling/spreading the word on this? If it's gonna make funding it's because people from here got the word out, so anything to aid in that would be good for the project.

Getting the word out is what we really need, thank you.

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Brad, mentioned it earlier , but while the guild tiers both have zero pledges, I'd yank them both and combine them into one in between the two (make sure and include alpha access). Anything you can do to streamline the tiers will help as you'll be adding more as it is, and if you wait you might not be able to combine them.

Edit: I also see the pricey additional tier with the swag , good to have one on that end. Now add a +50 or +100 dollar swag add-on (I believe you can do add-ons with KS) of something like a poster sized printed map that you and the team sign or something. It's something you could draw up and have printed and shipped fairly easy.

Spynx_sl · Jan 19, 2014

The concept art of the city of ships....

What this picture says to me is a possible trade hub. What I gather from this a possible bazaar type zone with ships leading to other zones(think WoW zeps/ships). The fact that it is in the water makes me think Booty Bay. This could also be a great place to have to learn spells/skills for a bard subclass (swashbuckler). Another idea that comes to mind is since it is an area of ships, what if it could move zones. They travel around Terminus or have mini hubs all over the world. Another neat Idea could be delivering mail. I have an item that I have sold to you and since we are too far apart in the world to physically meet, I CoD you the longsword or trade mats that you need from my side of the world to yours. The catch being travel time from my ship hub to the main hub to yours. Like in WoW for example when the package is delivered to get a mail icon saying your package has been delivered to your hub. You then have to pay the "delivery" fee of whatever price we decided on and the item is yours. I then have to wait until the ship returns back to my hub and delivers my coin. I have to pay a service fee for the ships crew etc.( Something similar to the % the AH in wow takes from each sale).

Vandyn · Jan 19, 2014

Dahkoht_sl said:
Brad, mentioned it earlier , but while the guild tiers both have zero pledges, I'd yank them both and combine them into one in between the two (make sure and include alpha access). Anything you can do to streamline the tiers will help as you'll be adding more as it is, and if you wait you might not be able to combine them.

Edit: I also see the pricey additional tier with the swag , good to have one on that end. Now add a +50 or +100 dollar swag add-on of something like a poster sized printed map that you and the team sign or something.

I thought they couldn't change the tiers anymore?

Lost Ranger_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Did the KS number just go backwards? I only check it once a day, but I think they went down $10,000 or so from last night? Ouch.

Edit: I see it. Looks like they lost a $10,000 supporter.

Heallun · Jan 19, 2014

jilena_sl said:
What's funny about this is that I have extremely mixed feelings mostly based on how "challenge" is defined. I only raided in WoW through vanilla naxx. Raiding is not really my thing and I'm more into small group content/social whatever. The thing is, that with that experience I can say there was NOTHING in vanilla-velious EQ that I ever encountered that could compare to that in difficulty. No I didn't experience all of the top end content through velious but I'm pretty confident that there were no encounters in EQ and its first 2 expansions that were on par with naxx in vanilla WoW. Just from my experience with EQ in general. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I also feel that WoW classes are HARDER to play WoW than most of their EQ equivalents. I think there was skill required in managing resources as a few people have hit on in earlier posts. However aside from that where is the actual "challenge" in EQ?

Had you been in VP before the training rules ended, we could've shown you difficulty. Lots of training, countertraining, grabbing another train, and wiping raids trying to engage, raids hiding in weird spots (like in the fking ceiling with gflux) and such. Really fun stuff...but all that's gone now.

Dahkoht_sl · Jan 19, 2014

Vandyn_sl said:
I thought they couldn't change the tiers anymore?

You can when there's zero pledges , looks like they just changed the guild pledge tiers by changing it to alpha for the lower and getting rid of the current upper one and changing it.

Other thing I was talking about was an add-on to current tiers (something you buy to slap onto your tier).

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