Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Khane · Jan 20, 2014

Zoeii_sl said:
This happens on just about every successful Kickstarter campaign. Again, there is a reminder system for Kickstarter. A lot of people hit that Remind me button and when they get the reminder email (1st one is sent out 48 hours before the end time), they pledge. There is really no other way to explain all the spikes. You can do the research yourself by looking at some campaigns on Kicktraq. A lot of people like to wait until the last minute, myself included. Although, I already backed Pantheon.

Well of course. People want a game to be made but they don't want to throw any money into the ring unless they absolutely have to.

rhinohelix · Jan 20, 2014

Soygen_sl said:
Yeah, what did Pathfinder do on that final day that garnered almost 25% of their total funding? At first I figured it was some very large donations from a few people, but they added over 1000 new backers on that day alone and the average pledge for the final day was actually lower than the average across the entire KS campaign. Was anyone involved/following that? I'm very curious how it was hyped/marketed on that final day.

There was a huge push as they were nowhere close to making it. That is how I remember it; They were going to fail and put forth a frenzy of "now or never, the ship is sinking all hands on deck" communiques, at least in the places I read.

Tol_sl · Jan 20, 2014

Want to know what a fantastic mapping system was? A little game called Miasmata. It basically started you out with a blank sheet, and you could fill in parts of the map by triangulating your position between landmarks. It required you to thoroughly explore the game world and climb to high vantage points to triangulate, and then when you pulled up a complete map it would basically give you a location in the center of the three closest landmarks. It was functional, but also required you actively explored. And even then, you couldn't just hit the cruise control numlock and watch the GPS as you cruised past everything.

Khane · Jan 20, 2014

I wish we would all can it with the "immersion" routine. Immersion is in the eyes of the beholder. What breaks your immersion might add to the immersion of someone else.

For some, hopping on a gryphon cheapens the experience because now they can "bypass" content (as if running along the walls of a zone because it's the safest route isn't bypassing content). To me it let's me fly over high level content that would kick the shit out of me and think "Hot damn, that looks cool as hell. Can't wait till I'm down on the ground kicking the shit out of that stuff".

gogojira_sl · Jan 20, 2014

I feel like I'm already hearing the "I wouldn't want to play with someone likethatanyways" argument pop-up too much, particularly about anyone judging the dungeon screenshot. What an awful logic to have, particularly when you need every bit of help you can get to fund this game.

Edit: Not the devs by the way, I'm talking about backers.

Zoeii_sl · Jan 20, 2014

And just so you guys know I'm not a wuss based on some of my recent posts, I want this game to be as hardcore as possible.

I want no map or GPS at all.
I want no mounts at all, not even land mounts.
I mostly want a harsh death penalty. I want to have to bank my gold for fear of losing it if I die.
I want to work hard for that piece of gear that I cannot live without. If it takes me 2 months to finally get that drop, I am fine with that.
etc, etc, etc

But, I am also realistic and know that Brad isn't making this game just for me. There are going to have to be compromises.

Merlin_sl · Jan 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
I gotta be honest, I understand the argument for not wanting a minimap and GPS but... there are certain conveniences I don't want to be without ever again in my actual everyday life and if simple conveniences like GPS are gone from a game and I have to fumble and flounder with land marks to find my around I'm probably going to just get frustrated.

If you want slow, dangerous travel and also have it be completely unaided by a minimap or GPS grouping is going to be hell on earth.

"Ok, you guys know how to get to this stupid new water zone?"
"Sorry, first time, no idea how to get there"
"Alright where are you now? Kaladarp? Shit, OK I'll try to walk you through it. First follow the wall to your east"
"Which way is east?"
"Use your true north spell, face north, then turn right, ok now follow that wall til you hit the crimson plateau, follow the road til you get to the whispering tree and make a left. Zone into Gorky Park but watch out for the winds of change. If you hear a "wooosh" just fucking run, super high level air elementals are after you. Actually make sure you bind at the whispering tree"
"Hold on a second, how do I take a screenshot? I don't want to write all this down"
"Sigh, OK I'll come get you *45 minutes later* Whew we made it! Let's Pull"
*20 minutes later* "Gotta leave for work in about 15 minutes, how do we get out of here?"
"Are you fucking kidding me?"
"Sorry, didn't think it would take an hour and a half for the group to form, but I have a replacement. Thanks guys, ttyl!"
*Spiritfondler has joined the party*
"Sup guys? So how do I get there, first time for me"
"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"

You're right, there needs to be a compromise but I don't think a plain old map with no visual representation of where you currently are is it.

Send us a tell and we will hold your hand for you and lead you safely there. If you want, paint a fucking yellow wispy trail on your monitor if it makes ya feel better.

vazdeline_sl · Jan 20, 2014

Zoeii_sl said:
And just so you guys know I'm not a wuss based on some of my recent posts, I want this game to be as hardcore as possible.

I want no map or GPS at all.
I want no mounts at all, not even land mounts.
I mostly want a harsh death penalty. I want to have to bank my gold for fear of losing it if I die.
I want to work hard for that piece of gear that I cannot live without. If it takes me 2 months to finally get that drop, I am fine with that.
etc, etc, etc

But, I am also realistic and know that Brad isn't making this game just for me. There are going to have to be compromises.

I want mounts, but I want them to need food. I want them to get scared of really large beasts, or work up a level of tolerance through training. I want to tie that bitch down when I get off of it. If I am in a dungeon, I want to leave it outside, and if it dies then oh well I will get another. Create a level of realism here, with serious risk v.s. reward qualities, and mounts can be a really good thing for the game. Think of UO. Sadly the best, most immersive mount system and that was before EQ.

Khane · Jan 20, 2014

Zoeii_sl said:
I want no mounts at all, not even land mounts.

Riding a horse in a magical fantasy world, the pussiest of mechanics. I can bring the dead back to life, call giant comets from the heavens to devastate my foes and ensnare my enemies with magical charms and mesmerizations. But I can't figure out how to ride this fucking horse!

zzeris · Jan 20, 2014

PvP on a few servers is great. PvP for everyone isn't.

popsicledeath · Jan 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
I wish we would all can it with the "immersion" routine. Immersion is in the eyes of the beholder. What breaks your immersion might add to the immersion of someone else.

For some, hopping on a gryphon cheapens the experience because now they can "bypass" content (as if running along the walls of a zone because it's the safest route isn't bypassing content). To me it let's me fly over high level content that would kick the shit out of me and think "Hot damn, that looks cool as hell. Can't wait till I'm down on the ground kicking the shit out of that stuff".

It's cute when you try to understand the more nuanced and functional definitions of words, much less the difference in relevance between a creator and the consumer of that creation.

Here's a big one for ya: verisimilitude.

Zoeii_sl · Jan 20, 2014

vazdeline_sl said:
I want mounts, but I want them to need food. I want them to get scared of really large beasts, or work up a level of tolerance through training. I want to tie that bitch down when I get off of it. If I am in a dungeon, I want to leave it outside, and if it dies then oh well I will get another. Create a level of realism here, with serious risk v.s. reward qualities, and mounts can be a really good thing for the game. Think of UO. Sadly the best, most immersive mount system and that was before EQ.

I actually like this idea.

Big Flex · Jan 20, 2014

+1 popsicle

also why the fuck are people mentally masturbating over torches and feeding your horse e-Oats when the major game concepts have yet to be designed, or atleast discussed publicly?

focus on the macro aspects, people.

Bruman · Jan 20, 2014

Yeah, I think a lot of mount hatred can go away if they're not simply "push magic button to run faster".

Imagine if they didn't poof, if they always existed in the world, if they needed to be feed / cared to some degree (not a full on...tomogachi? Whatever those hand held things kids had in middle school were), and could die.

Flying mounts could work as well, if most enemies had ways to attack airbone foes if close enough, and if flying wasn't so "float wherever you want". If you had to actually take off, glide, and land properly. Jumping off to try to skip content would be a Bad Idea. You wouldn't land in the middle of Orc Town Headquarters because you'd be fucking pelted with arrows and you and your mount would be dead long before you hit the ground. Plus, feeding / caring, they're permanent, etc.

Many of these things we don't like (maps, mounts, flying mounts) are because of the implementation - not the feature itself.

Khane · Jan 20, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
It's cute when you try to understand the more nuanced and functional definitions of words, much less the difference in relevance between a creator and the consumer of that creation.

Here's a big one for ya: verisimilitude.

Ahh yes, the more "nuanced and functional" definitions. Hahaha.

Zoeii_sl · Jan 20, 2014

Khane_sl said:
Riding a horse in a magical fantasy world, the pussiest of mechanics. I can bring the dead back to life, call giant comets from the heavens to devastate my foes and ensnare my enemies with magical charms and mesmerizations. But I can't figure out how to ride this fucking horse!

You are arguing this from a different angle from me. I love to explore but I also know I can become lazy when I am given too many conveniences. I played EQOA for a long time and there were no mounts in that game and I never felt like it was stupid. I never had this mentality "since I can do this...I therefore should be able to do this." I couldn't climb mountains in EQOA, I had to go around them, but surely since I was a mighty druid I should be able to teleport over the mountains right? Wrong.

I knew the Norrath of EQOA like I know my hometown. I could easily navigate it without a map and without a mount because I was forced to get out there and explore on foot and know my surroundings. It's a difference in opinion man, we're going to disagree no matter what.

zzeris · Jan 20, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
It's cute when you try to understand the more nuanced and functional definitions of words, much less the difference in relevance between a creator and the consumer of that creation.

Here's a big one for ya: verisimilitude.

Lol, well played Mr popsicledeath. Well played.

Khane · Jan 20, 2014

Zoeii_sl said:
You are arguing this from a different angle from me. I love to explore but I also know I can become lazy when I am given too many conveniences. I played EQOA for a long time and there were no mounts in that game and I never felt like it was stupid. I never had this mentality "since I can do this...I therefore should be able to do this." I couldn't climb mountains in EQOA, I had to go around them, but surely since I was a mighty druid I should be able to teleport over the mountains right? Wrong.

I knew the Norrath of EQOA like I know my hometown. I could easily navigate it without a map and without a mount because I was forced to get out there and explore on foot and know my surroundings. It's a difference in opinion man, we're going to disagree no matter what.

I was being cheeky.

Zoeii_sl · Jan 20, 2014

Big Flex_sl said:
+1 popsicle

also why the fuck are people mentally masturbating over torches and feeding your horse e-Oats when the major game concepts have yet to be designed, or atleast discussed publicly?

focus on the macro aspects, people.

By all means, lead us good sir. What would you have us discuss now? Can you make us a discussion schedule? Or do you just want to continue to complain about the conversations we are having about the game?

Big Flex · Jan 20, 2014

Zoeii_sl said:
By all means, lead us good sir. What would you have us discuss now? Can you make us a discussion schedule? Or do you just want to continue to complain about the conversations we are having about the game?

ill hammer out a rough outline of what you are permitted to discuss and when this afternoon

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