Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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V

vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
The most epic times in UO: Was when I was fighting another dude while mounted. I died, but my horse fucking killed the guy because he was out of stamina and already close to death. Times like that I was grateful to have a mount.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
Dulldain_sl said:
Why are we talking about EQ, Pantheon is not going to be a revamped EQ. It will be a Vanguard 2.0, which is fine but I think people are setting the wrong expectations.

Also the lighting? Seriously? Its a minor thing, means very little, and most people want to be able to see. Most players (including me) just cast the gamma spell and went on. That crap was all over the Sigil boards and made about as much sense then.
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Yea that logic is sound. It also works for travel, decentral AH, death penalty or non-instanced dungeons. Lets skip all that crap.
 
J

jilena_sl

shitlord
123
0
Quineloe_sl said:
So what? It's not like he's saying something we didn't know before he said it. Hey, the sky is blue! and when it's cloudy, it's not!

and you never did anything wrong in your entire life. I hope your shittiest little mistake comes back and haunts you when you least need it, because you are truly one unbearable shitbag when it comes to bringing up the past
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It's one thing to be a fuck up in various aspects of your life and then want to be a better person. It's another thing to fuck up with other people's trust, money, and resources and then claim to have changed and ask for another chance with other people's trust, money, and resources.

The kind of scrutiny he is getting is not even the tiniest bit undeserved and should be expected with anyone asking for a large sum of money or involved in politics.

I'm all for giving the guy a second chance. He just also needs to realize that he can't expect the same kind of leeway as someone with a clean track record. People want transparency. People want factual data about where their money is going. People want sureties and guarantees that this isn't going to be a repeat of the last time.

The thing is, if he is truly on the up and up and intends to do everything he says, there should be no reason he can't provide the kind of transparency people are asking for.

Put nicely - We also dream the same dream as you and we want you to make that dream a reality. We believe you can do it because we know you have made our dream a reality once before. What we want now is to trust you enough to contribute our valuable time and resources to the fulfillment of that dream. Be honest with us, be open with us, do not feed our nostalgia with half truths and lies you cannot hope to make true. We understand that this is a niche product and know we have very little chance of seeing it become reality elsewhere. Do not take advantage of this fact to mislead us. Understand that you are lucky to even have this second chance and that you need to be humble. Show us through transparency in all things and dedication that is obvious in every aspect of the project that we have made the right decision in granting this second chance. Get organized, be effective, SHOW us that this time is different.

Hastily thrown together pages asking for large sums of money just seems amateur. Not knowing where things are really going, not having a thought out design, and answering all questions with ultra generic information is not trust inspiring. The only reason this project has any chance of being successfully funded in its present state is that enough people want this bad enough that they are willing to overlook the glaring evidence that this is simply throwing money away. Myself included. I want this too bad not to contribute, but right now I don't feel very good about doing so when I should be overjoyed to be a part of it.

*shrug*
 
V

vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
jilena_sl said:
It's one thing to be a fuck up in various aspects of your life and then want to be a better person. It's another thing to fuck up with other people's trust, money, and resources and then claim to have changed and ask for another chance with other people's trust, money, and resources.

The kind of scrutiny he is getting is not even the tiniest bit undeserved and should be expected with anyone asking for a large sum of money or involved in politics.

I'm all for giving the guy a second chance. He just also needs to realize that he can't expect the same kind of leeway as someone with a clean track record. People want transparency. People want factual data about where their money is going. People want sureties and guarantees that this isn't going to be a repeat of the last time.

The thing is, if he is truly on the up and up and intends to do everything he says, there should be no reason he can't provide the kind of transparency people are asking for.

Put nicely - We also dream the same dream as you and we want you to make that dream a reality. We believe you can do it because we know you have made our dream a reality once before. What we want now is to trust you enough to contribute our valuable time and resources to the fulfillment of that dream. Be honest with us, be open with us, do not feed our nostalgia with half truths and lies you cannot hope to make true. We understand that this is a niche product and know we have very little chance of seeing it become reality elsewhere. Do not take advantage of this fact to mislead us. Understand that you are lucky to even have this second chance and that you need to be humble. Show us through transparency in all things and dedication that is obvious in every aspect of the project that we have made the right decision in granting this second chance. Get organized, be effective, SHOW us that this time is different.

Hastily thrown together pages asking for large sums of money just seems amateur. Not knowing where things are really going, not having a thought out design, and answering all questions with ultra generic information is not trust inspiring. The only reason this project has any chance of being successfully funded in its present state is that enough people want this bad enough that they are willing to overlook the glaring evidence that this is simply throwing money away. Myself included. I want this too bad not to contribute, but right now I don't feel very good about doing so when I should be overjoyed to be a part of it.

*shrug*
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Awfully emotional
 
V

vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
Also, blaming 1 person for the mistakes of the past(in this case, Brad), is similar to blaming Obama (1 man) for all of America's downfalls.

That type of mentality is ignorant of reality.
 
Lasch

Lasch

Trakanon Raider
1,526
737
I wonder if Paragons will have the option to get lifetime subs down the line if they are good little testers.
 
J

jilena_sl

shitlord
123
0
tad10_sl said:
Eqnext is going the no level route. I don't think it will work as well as you guys think it will. Levels are good, there just have been too many levels in most games. Wow didn't need 60 levels for vanilla. vg didn't need 50
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I think the thing with levels and level numbers just gets ridiculous. AO had 200 levels for christ's sake. The thing is levels are only cool if something happens when you level. NEXT LEVEL I GET SOW. TWO MORE LEVELS TIL TRIPLE ATTACK. HELL YES PUPPY PET NEXT LEVEL. WHAT WHAT MY FIRST GROUP PORT. 200 levels of "YAY +7 HP and +2 STR and +1 STA and +1 AGI. Oh and here is a skill point you can use for something. Have fun." isn't really exciting to me : /
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,336
14,000
vazdeline_sl said:
Also, blaming 1 person for the mistakes of the past(in this case, Brad), is similar to blaming Obama (1 man) for all of America's downfalls.

That type of mentality is ignorant of reality.
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You can't be serious...
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
Tuco_sl said:
Fuck EC tunnel.

Ingame maps are fine. I think how WoW did them was perfect (Have them blank at first and unveil as you progress). You could even combine them with EQ's system with player-made notes and add a structure to share them. Personally with EQ I just downloaded a map pack and put it in the right place, which is probably what would happen.
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Frenzic_sl said:
Has anyone played a game that offers an in game map but the map doesn't show yourself on it? I'm not sure how that would be game play wise but in theory its a compromise. Its reasonable to think the world would be mapped and this would be like eqatlas but in your ui.
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The Wow (or WAR) maps looked good, I just want to get rid of the GPS part (both getting your position off the map and going without the gps mini-map and use a compass only instead).
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,283
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jilena_sl said:
It's one thing to be a fuck up in various aspects of your life and then want to be a better person. It's another thing to fuck up withother people's trust, money, and resourcesand then claim to have changed and ask for another chance with other people's trust, money, and resources.


*shrug*
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This was company resources and it cost him a lot when this happened. If it's ok for people to GIVE him the resources, then this shouldn't be a problem. This should not be a discussion point on every other page. KS is all about donations. If you don't want to give, then don't. No explanations needed or really wanted at this point.
 
arallu

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
47
Merlin_sl said:
Vanguard is really cool. Wife and I still log on occasionally and play. They got a lot right with Vanguard. But the engine...../shudders
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Same, wife loves it. So many great areas and different stuff to do in them, from Tehatamani (flipping temples was a great way to have camps in a zone but actually doing something with ur time instead of just pulling mobs to a spot), the isle of madness and lev cloak/jump boots to the swamp armor areas/quests, also the crafting and group harvesting was pretty good stuff.
But Brad has mentioned Pantheon will be a little VG, a little new, and alot EQ.
 
J

jilena_sl

shitlord
123
0
Khane_sl said:
The argument against this from the purist's perspective is "If it's there it ruins my immersion just knowing other people are using it". And of course, you say you wouldn't use it and you really might not, but I don't believe you.

The objectives being shown actually was not part of the initial design of wow. It didn't flash at you where you were supposed to go, you still had to figure it out yourself. A player came along and invented questhelper. EVERYONE used it so Blizzard incorporated it into the default UI. Blame the players for that one, not Blizzard.
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Another problem with this too from an immersion standpoint is a lot of useful WoW mods spam the group chat window, or worse some of the more "global" channels. This annoys a lot of people.

I don't like mods just cuz I don't like extra stuff shitting up my interface, and I dislike the idea of having to add in extra shit to the default interface to be competitive. I won't cry if it's in though.
 
L

Lysis

N00b
102
0
vazdeline_sl said:
Also, blaming 1 person for the mistakes of the past(in this case, Brad), is similar to blaming Obama (1 man) for all of America's downfalls.

That type of mentality is ignorant of reality.
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Regardless of who was to blame for what, what happened to Vanguard is relevant to this KS. It's a valid concern that has to be overcome if the supporters of this KS want to win over those fans of this genre.

Personally, I'm still on the fence. I bet a lot of people who want this game to happen are. The players burned by VG are among those who believed in Brad the most in 2007.

Edit: I want to add that while I think it's great many of you are so charitable and don't mind throwing money at something that might not happen, I do. I don't think I'm alone. If I contribute, I want there to be a good chance to see results. Again, this is a valid concern that needs to be overcome to win over skeptics on the fence who could push this over the edge.
 
Z

Zoeii_sl

shitlord
77
0
Dulldain_sl said:
Why are we talking about EQ, Pantheon is not going to be a revamped EQ. It will be a Vanguard 2.0, which is fine but I think people are setting the wrong expectations.

Also the lighting? Seriously? Its a minor thing, means very little, and most people want to be able to see. Most players (including me) just cast the gamma spell and went on. That crap was all over the Sigil boards and made about as much sense then.
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Are you serious? He already said this is going to be the spiritual successor to EQ. I am trying to find the exact quote but he said it will be a lot of EQ, some Vanguard and some new stuff.
 
V

vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
lysis_sl said:
Regardless of who was to blame for what, what happened to Vanguard is relevant to this KS. It's a valid concern that has to be overcome if the supporters of this KS want to win over those fans of this genre.

Personally, I'm still on the fence. I bet a lot of people who want this game to happen are. The players burned by VG are among those who believed in Brad the most in 2007.
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Sure, this makes sense.

I suppose the only difference now is that the business model back then was un-becoming of their "Vision", and ultimately crumbled as a result of biting off more than one can chew. Hopefully, tiered funding per feature will fix the problems of the past.
 
J

jilena_sl

shitlord
123
0
vazdeline_sl said:
Also, blaming 1 person for the mistakes of the past(in this case, Brad), is similar to blaming Obama (1 man) for all of America's downfalls.

That type of mentality is ignorant of reality.
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It's different when you are talking bout the CEO of a company who CAN steer it to a large degree, and the President of the U.S. who can express a desire to steer things how he wishes yet is handicapped by the system. Also, if Obama had made some royally shit decisions, had lots of rumors floating around about squandering time and resources, not to mention drug use, and not even showing up to see his people being fired... And then came back a few years later and was like HEY GUISE GIMME MONEY... I guarantee he would get roasted to such a degree Utnayan would look like a kiss ass.

No one is denying that other factors contributed to issues at Sigil. The point is that most people did not like the parts that involved Brad himself. And it's Brad himself here asking for money, not the rest of the system. *shrug*
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
277
Lithose_sl said:
In regards to instancing. Like everything else, I hope the bad effects of it won't force it to be rejected out of hand. I think it's important to actually examine what those problems were. For example, I think how instancing forced changes to loot, and scarcity of loot (IE it became less of a trophy/prize and more of a time card to punch letting you know you did work)? These bad aspects were some of the big problems with instancing that have never been addressed. However, I don't think those problems are so inherent that you can't design the raid/dungeon/instancing system to account for them, and so item scarcity and competition can be kept alive, but perhaps in a less aggressive nature than EQ. (Again, I don't think anyone wants P99 in a modern MMO.)

I'd really like a game, in fact, to merge the two. For example--Every raid mob would be default open world. However, at the start of each raid there'd be a switch that allowed you to enter an instance for that raid mob. The caveat being though that you only had a limited number of instance kills per cycle (Week or whatever)--and that number? Would besignificantlysmaller than the amount of bosses in game. So, if there are 6 current end game bosses, the number you can kill within an instance is3. The benefit to a system like this would be making sure there is still ahugeincentive for competition in order to maximize farming, but there is a stop gap so guilds can actually see/do content; at the cost of doing less of it. (And the number of instances you can do should remain stable, or only increase slightly, as more content gets added. Again, these instances should be used to see content for raids, and give guilds the means to do things even when everything is down but the point would be not to replace the over world.)

Combine that with other small details--like instanced loot would be BoP, while non-instanced loot would not have any soul binding--therefor creating a very valuable twink/exchange market if guilds can down the "prime" (open world) target. That economic incentive would also give a strong impetus to compete in the over world--because the items obtained from there could be traded to other guilds to fill in missing pieces of loot, or sold for twinking so said loot could be bought. Regardless, the point here is that you'd still have a very strong impetus to go out and do these mobs in the over world, and compete for them but if you fail, you're not left out in the cold--there is a certain amount of "consolation" content (It's just more restrictive than open world.)

Heck, with your game having weird planar intersections, it would even be easy to write into the lore! Instances would actually be mirror planes that collided with X or Y dungeon. Your guild needs to collect components to open them. However, loot that's gotten from there can only remain corporeal when worn (Hence the BoP) and mortal beings can only enter these unstable planes X number of times per week! (Hah)

I don't know, I know that's just some vague thoughts. But I think the main point I'd like to express is that--yes instancing had a lot of bad effects. But it also had good ones. On the same token, non-instanced content had a lot of bad effects as well, but also had good ones. Right now we only really have games that either do full bore instancing, or used to use full bore non-instance dungeons. Hopefully, Brad, you find a balance between the two and explore the one place no game really has (Except for some parts of EQ2)--which is a combination of instancing and community content that ensures the best aspects of both systems remain in your world (Best aspect of community content: Scarcity of loot, competition, investment in loot/characters. Best aspect of instancing: Content available, social activities for guilds not poop socking ect.)

Anyway, just my .02$.
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I feel like that are too many 'systems' already. I'd very much want to keep it simple. I am against instancing that's just a way to to avoid contested content, both on a group and raid level.

However, I see the point that always being the empty-handed second in a race is a frustration on raid groups. One thing to keep in mind is that with a large world the number one raiders cant be everywhere. They take first choice or maybe are efficient enough for second choice too before you rally, but if there is enough content you should get something (bottleneck key mobs are a different topic, keep that shit solo/group only imo).

In addition to that, I think you could introduce enough ways to trigger yourself a raid target, and you dont need to limit it with 'x per week or anything either'. If anyone remembers Silithus you could solo/group farm stuff to summon a multi-group boss there. Put enough like that in alongside normally spawned bosses, so any guild that doesnt get a target on a raid night can go "ok guys the dragon is dead, lets break some seals to fight a demon lord instead". Reflavor as needed. Trigger stuff comes from group content players would do anyway for AA/coin/faction or maybe some solo stuff (Shawl and Ring in Velious being good examples).That way you already have another hook for people outside of raid hours, too.
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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Mr Creed_sl said:
The Wow (or WAR) maps looked good, I just want to get rid of the GPS part (both getting your position off the map and going without the gps mini-map and use a compass only instead).
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I'm down with that. In Skyrim when I was doing super immersive, dead is dead playthroughs I modded my map so it didn't show my location. I also modded the compass to remove the near location icons and enemy icons. The game world really changes when you stop looking at terrain as just eye candy and start using it to know where you are.

I say this but I'm directionally strong and can use a map. There's a ton of people who can't navigate game worlds for shit. I guess it's part of the socialization of MMOs that's missing. People in EQ used to ask for someone to help guide them through confusing areas (Skyshrine, lol) areas all the time. Now it's so trivial to get through any area without difficult KOS mobs there's no reason to ask for help.
 
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