Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Tol_sl said:
I think what really was discouraging was seeing Kingdom Come pop up out of nowhere and look far more organized.
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Yes because KC was a bit more organized but more importantly KC is a presale of a finished product. Those tend to raise more. Pnatheon can still make it. And if it doesn't he could try a smaller KS with a reduced scope.
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
302
22
There were bad things about EQ, but to me, the good things way out weighed the bad things by far. I hated and loved Everquest. After all is said and done, I am still playing Everquest after 14 years. So, I guess that has to mean something.
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
302
22
mkopec_sl said:
....holy......lay on hand.........plate armor.......healing........big sword..........shields..........

Just fill in the rest with some bullshit lolore.
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Ok, so you just described the main characteristics of any high fantasy paladin character. The thing that amazes me is how people always want something "different". It is what it is. A paladin. There are thousands of high fantasy books out there that have paladin characters in them.

I don't need Brad to invent a new class. Just tell me, we got Paladins in the game. Period. End of story. Nothing else to say. I know what a paladin is already. You can call the game "Big donkey dicks with monkey poo", and if you say it has paladins in it, I and YOU know what they are talking about.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
Quineloe_sl said:
Do you think that's relevant? Should we change our opinion based on this?

If Blizzard offered a classic WoW server, I might actually consider it.
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Also @Vandyn People have mentioned Vanilla WoW many times, in many threads and Quinloe's quote is pretty representative of the responses.

Vanilla WoW got many things right and, most importantly, had a harsher XP curve and less quests so you couldn't just quest to level, which meant it was worthwhile spending a little time grinding in dungeons for XP/items and of course it had original AV. Then starting with Patch 1.6 (the slow weapon nerf) Blizzard started putting the game on rails. The only really bad things about vWoW was it introduced the purple-blue-green color coding of items and vWoW crafting was pretty pointless except for original Engineering - all the other crafting classes had exactly one non-shitty purpose e.g. Blacksmithing for the Dark Iron items for MC, Alchemy just for those last few Elixirs IIRC (anyone?)
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
26,700
40,954
Bilbo Faggins_sl said:
Ok, so you just described the main characteristics of any high fantasy paladin character. The thing that amazes me is how people always want something "different". It is what it is. A paladin. There are thousands of high fantasy books out there that have paladin characters in them.

I don't need Brad to invent a new class. Just tell me, we got Paladins in the game. Period. End of story. Nothing else to say. I know what a paladin is already. You can call the game "Big donkey dicks with monkey poo", and if you say it has paladins in it, I and YOU know what they are talking about.
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I was taking about the big reveal tomorrow.

And while a paladin is a paladin, you mean you cant come up with some different mechanics as a class? Wow did, with the seals and all the other bullshit.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,118
53,077
Quineloe_sl said:
what was hard about them? I quit long before.
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To pick one the more difficult (but not the hardest) from Ulduar, the Assembly of Iron was a group of 3 dudes, and each time you killed one it would buff the remaining ones.

Assembly of Iron - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Hardmode was killing steelbreaker last, which means he's spamming a progressively heavier AoE, and when its down to just him he starts killing the tank every so often. He also gets partially healed and another buff to his damage every time someone dies when he's the last guy. The various abilities from the encounter required quick reactions and precise positioning, it really was a one person can fuck the whole raid encounter.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
Mughal_sl said:
Yes because KC was a bit more organized but more importantly KC is a presale of a finished product. Those tend to raise more. Pnatheon can still make it. And if it doesn't he could try a smaller KS with a reduced scope.
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Isn't it the presale of 1/3rd of a finished product? Didn't they split it the content into 3 sections, yada, yada, yada?

Anyway point is that, as others have said, they should have run a kickstarter for the kickstarter. Raised 100k just to develop enough content to actually hold a real kickstarter for 1m. I don't see them coming back with a reduced scope KS if this fails - but who knows right?
 
F

Flc_sl

shitlord
121
0
tad10_sl said:
Also @Vandyn People have mentioned Vanilla WoW many times, in many threads and Quinloe's quote is pretty representative of the responses.

Vanilla WoW got many things right and, most importantly, had a harsher XP curve and less quests so you couldn't just quest to level, which meant it was worthwhile spending a little time grinding in dungeons for XP/items and of course it had original AV. Then starting with Patch 1.6 (the slow weapon nerf) Blizzard started putting the game on rails. The only really bad things about vWoW was it introduced the purple-blue-green color coding of items and vWoW crafting was pretty pointless except for original Engineering - all the other crafting classes had exactly one non-shitty purpose e.g. Blacksmithing for the Dark Iron items for MC, Alchemy just for those last few Elixirs IIRC (anyone?)
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AV wasn't until 1.5. But yes, it was awesome. I'd sign up for games in the morning, AFK out a few hours later to run errands, and come back later on and the same match would still be going.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
mkopec_sl said:
I was taking about the big reveal tomorrow.

And while a paladin is a paladin, you mean you cant come up with some different mechanics as a class? Wow did, with the seals and all the other bullshit.
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VG Paladin had defensive rescues, which was a lovely combat mechanic.
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
302
22
mkopec_sl said:
I was taking about the big reveal tomorrow.

And while a paladin is a paladin, you mean you cant come up with some different mechanics as a class? Wow did, with the seals and all the other bullshit.
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Name one good reason why. This is the flaw that every MMO has made since WoW and EQ2 came out. They changed things ONLY for the sake of changing things. They didn't have a valid reason as to WHY to change things. They just had to be different or someone would say you copied xyz. Well so fucking what. If xyz is fucking amazing, then don't break it by changing it.

For instance, EQ Necromancers are the fucking shit. They always have been, and they always will be. WoW changed them in to Warlocks, and they sucked dick like a crack whore on a binge. Vanguard too had a pathetic version of a necromancer.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Pretty simple concept people.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,818
8,235
Gavinrad_sl said:
To pick one the more difficult (but not the hardest) from Ulduar, the Assembly of Iron was a group of 3 dudes, and each time you killed one it would buff the remaining ones.

Assembly of Iron - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Hardmode was killing steelbreaker last, which means he's spamming a progressively heavier AoE, and when its down to just him he starts killing the tank every so often. He also gets partially healed and another buff to his damage every time someone dies when he's the last guy. The various abilities from the encounter required quick reactions and precise positioning, it really was a one person can fuck the whole raid encounter.
Click to expand...
Why even argue? At the top end, WoW raiding was (is?) so much more difficult than anything EQ (vanilla - POP) had to offer it's almost laughable to suggest otherwise. Even grouping... There was nothing as challenging as single grouping BRD or UBRS during Vanilla WoW vs early EQ. Hell, even solo quests. Did anyone else do Benediction and Rhokdelar? Shit was pretty intense if you were under geared.

WoW has always been far more difficult than EQ in my experience.
 
I

Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Bilbo Faggins_sl said:
Name one good reason why. This is the flaw that every MMO has made since WoW and EQ2 came out. They changed things ONLY for the sake of changing things. They didn't have a valid reason as to WHY to change things. They just had to be different or someone would say you copied xyz. Well so fucking what. If xyz is fucking amazing, then don't break it by changing it.

For instance, EQ Necromancers are the fucking shit. They always have been, and they always will be. WoW changed them in to Warlocks, and they sucked dick like a crack whore on a binge. Vanguard too had a pathetic version of a necromancer.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Pretty simple concept people.
Click to expand...
In any game where the ultimate design goal isn't "Punch the players in the dick as hard and as often as possible", the fun EQ classes areridiculouslyoverpowered.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
26,700
40,954
Flc_sl said:
AV wasn't until 1.5. But yes, it was awesome. I'd sign up for games in the morning, AFK out a few hours later to run errands, and come back later on and the same match would still be going.
Click to expand...
I do have to admit that WoW vanilla was pretty damn good. IMO it was good through BC but thats just my opinion. Oh, and I loved when they introduced the PvP battlegrounds. Man, that was the shit back in those days. Truly innovative idea.

But what I hated about wow from the beginning is the loss of the one armed bandit and the exploration. The loot was all random bullshit designed on a spreadsheet and the exploration was all but nonexistent because there was nothing to explore for. All mobs dropped the same shit everywhere. There was no rare mobs (well the was some but they were still shitty) no placeholders, no rare loot like EQ had.... All pretty much BOE. And if you didnt have a quest to take you somwhere, there is absolutely no reason to go check it out, because there is nothing there.
 
Jimbolini

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
2,607
991
Quaid_sl said:
Why even argue? At the top end, WoW raiding was (is?) so much more difficult than anything EQ (vanilla - POP) had to offer it's almost laughable to suggest otherwise. Even grouping... There was nothing as challenging as single grouping BRD or UBRS during Vanilla WoW vs early EQ. Hell, even solo quests. Did anyone else do Benediction and Rhokdelar? Shit was pretty intense if you were under geared.

WoW has always been far more difficult than EQ in my experience.
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By no means arguing that point, but Eq2 had some mutha raid encounters.
 
E

Elidroth_sl

shitlord
350
0
The simplest answer I can think of as to why you rename or come up with a new class name is freedom of change. If you call a class "Paladin", and it isn't the EQ Paladin, the people who are expecting the EQ Paladin will lose their shit! But if you call it Cavalier or Defender or something else, then you have more freedom to change the way the class works.

I worry that a lot of people are expecting Pantheon to just be 'EQ Updated' and not something else. For those people, Brad may be in a no-win situation here.

At least that's how my thinking goes..
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
302
22
Itzena_sl said:
In any game where the ultimate design goal isn't "Punch the players in the dick as hard and as often as possible", the fun EQ classes areridiculouslyoverpowered.
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Ok I loled at that. Being overpowered (even ridiculously) is something that EQ made you earn. After you put the time and effort in to gaining that right, you damn well better bet you enjoyed it.

I played a necromancer as my main character in Vanguard all the way to the end game, and even after I put all that time and effort in to the character, I **NEVER** felt epic, over powered, or even a tiny bit powerful. I always felt like any mob no matter how insignificant could fuck me up. I'd go help low level friends, and get my ass handed to me in low level dungeons thanks to the stupid ass DOT system they had in play. So very stupid.
 
BilboFaggins

BilboFaggins

N00b
302
22
Elidroth_sl said:
The simplest answer I can think of as to why you rename or come up with a new class name is freedom of change. If you call a class "Paladin", and it isn't the EQ Paladin, the people who are expecting the EQ Paladin will lose their shit! But if you call it Cavalier or Defender or something else, then you have more freedom to change the way the class works.

I worry that a lot of people are expecting Pantheon to just be 'EQ Updated' and not something else. For those people, Brad may be in a no-win situation here.

At least that's how my thinking goes..
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While I see where you are coming from, I can say from experience that it didn't help in Vanguard one bit. Everybody knew that a Dread Knight was really a ShadowKnight. The correlation was obvious. And, quite frankly, the things they changed to differentiate the Dread Knight from the ShadowKnight were part of the reasons why the Dread Knight wasn't as fun to play as the ShadowKnight.
 
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