Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,106
293,059
Big Flex_sl said:
so do you guys think a reddit ama and a exposure via a boogie interview would push this over 500k?

i agree with the sentiment expressed here and elsewhere that drumming up additional visibility is putting the cart before the horse if they dont finish unfucking the kickstarter page and add alot, alot more "info" to it first.
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The reason I said reaching out to popular internet people, or old supporters with a following like GUcomics was a smart move is because it gets eyeballs to the page. It's fucking marketing 101. The same with the Reddit AMA and everything else we have been telling him to do. Sadly the posters here have more business acumen and savvy than anyone on team McQuaids Garage Warriors.

Is there kickstarter still garbage? YES
Do they still have fuck all of a plan? NO
Do they deserve peoples money? NO
Are they inept as fuck? PROBABLY
Can this kickstarter get funded in spite of all that because they actually used the suggestions here to make semi smart marketing choices and actually act like they know how to sell a product? YES

If I were known enough in the industry like Brad is I would be reaching out to all sorts of people who could get me views, I would probably do that more by saying we would be reaching that sweet spot between Everquest and Vanilla WoW since so many more people played wow and know it. I mean fuck do you know how many celebrities played and loved WoW who you could get a tweet of endorsement from if you could pluck their nostalgia strings.

I would hit up "Geek and Sundry" try and talk to Wil Wheaton, and Felicia Day, talk with someone like Kripparrian who loves to review and talk about games. Hell Mila Kunis was a hugh WoW fan, this is just a small example of people who would support a good MMO in a heartbeat. Not that this is a good MMO and some of the people like Krip I can't really stand but when it comes to business it isn't about personal feelings it's about getting out there not taking no for an answer and making something happen.

I would still hire with whatever pennies I had a fucking PR expect/Social Media Pro to fix my shitty Kickstarter and clean up the mess I have already started. I mean the dude shit his pants here if he isn't going to get a new pair and start over the least he could do is wash the ones he is wearing. Many people are coming here saying opinion has changed and for me really it hasn't no matter what they do this Kickstarter is a fucking fraud designed to start a studio and pay these fuckers wages instead of going towards a game. I still don't see a project that if brought in front of an investor would get anything but I kindly "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY OFFICE" response. That doesn't mean I can't applaud them when they do make the occasional sensible decision. As someone else quoted earlier in the thread "The hands on a broken clock are at least correct twice a day."
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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It has nothing to do with a 'cycle'. They are very clearly listening to, and addressing concerns, and deserve whatever props they are getting from us, as well as the uptick in pledges.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,764
617
41 backers overnight. Not bad. They have all day still. Hopefully they have an update planned.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,106
293,059
Big Flex_sl said:
i have no doubt they thought that.

''Hey guys! GUYS! I just found out about this webpage, its called kickstarter, apparently you post there and people just GIVE you money! I bet we go there, tell some of the die hard nerds im back and well be fucking set. lets set the bar low at ehhh 800k, just to not look obnoxious. UO was chump change compared to MY game, so if that creepy fuck Garriot can pull in 1.9 million, lets set some stretch goals for double that.''

they got reality checked pretty quick and hard though. im glad this happened. so if this pig gets funded, they got humbled a bit beforehand.
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You would think the 40 million dollar fuck up, would have humbled him first. Does the blatant lying and bullshit that comes from this guy really feel like that of a humbled man to you? The 800k still bothers me as does the retarded as stretch goals. Shit that needs to be in the game to function properly should never be a stretch goal. What I want to know though is how many more kickstarter's they plan on having after this one if it's successful. Brad has already said multiple times that this is just the first one to get it started and he intends to try and crowd source the whole game before ever approaching another studio or investor. So in this 3-5 year development cycle, how many more times will they pop up a new kickstarter to snag a couple million here and a few million there.. Sorry guys we're 90% there just need some more polish how about another couple of million. You can only give away beta and alpha access to the same people so many times.

This project still doesn't have anyone at the helm, and we still have no clue where this money will be going. It would be nice if Brad and crew could even do something as simple as this. I posted it before but it bears a repost.

rrr_img_57802.png


Tell us what you are doing with everyones money you fucking twat.
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
3,656
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Convo_sl said:
I know Brad is talking a lot about Eq1 in regards to this game, but I think it will be a mistake if people expect EQ1. I personally don't.. The world will obviously not be Everquest. I expect some familiar things from EQ but all games have that..?If they hit on a fun class and combat system with an interesting world, it will go a long way for playability. Rift may of been a wow clone but the class system(although lacking) was still fun enough to keep people around to explore its trees..

I also think the carrot of spells and class gear dropping in the world will go a long way in regards to keeping people. Again, that's assuming the class system is engaging.

@Denault-really appreciate the honestly.. Unlike some of the anonymous Devs posting, we can actually attach a name to you. Obviously I hope you're wrong but you said how you felt.. Brad did say there are more Devs ready to jump on this. No idea what they will do tho.. I've said from the very beginning there is some blind faith associated with this.. There is with any game really.. I also agree that some young Devs should get a shot, but ask those young Devs to start building a game like pantheon so I have a reason to give them my money..
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I agree with you and that's why I think this is doomed to fail (at least in the eyes of old school EQ vets), because Brad himself set it up to 'be a lot like EQ'. What that does is invite all sorts of comparisons and if it doesn't live up to it (almost impossible to do), then let the bitching commence. I do think there are a percentage (majority) whodothink and expect this to be EQ 2.0 and I think there's going to be a lot of disappointment there.
 
K

K13R

Bronze Knight of the Realm
285
9
Boozecube_sl said:
Well of course, I mean funding or not everyone pledging cash after seeing how little they have are willingly taking it up pooper.. but you have to admit this was a smart business move on their part.


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Oh its a smart move without it the whole ponzi scheme comes crashing down think of a_skeleton_03 as a early investor who saw the writing on the wall and pulled his money before it was hopeless lost... If it pays off Brad gets to keep pretending he is a designer of some talent and renown if not then there goes the ferrari... Cheers Brad Madoff
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,764
617
Looks like combat info dropping today

@Vandlyn- the design around large sprawling dungeons could be enough to keep the EQ vet at bay. If they are well done, with an old school feel, I think people might be more forgiven than you predict. I think a large part of this games success will fall on the dungeons.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
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K13R_sl said:
Oh its a smart move without it the whole ponzi scheme comes crashing down think of a_skeleton_03 as a early investor who saw the writing on the wall and pulled his money before it was hopeless lost... If it pays off Brad gets to keep pretend he is a designer of some talent and renown if not then there goes the ferrari... Cheers Brad Madoff
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That's just a load of shit and so is a_skeleton_03. No intelligent person donates 10k early to any project. He wanted to feel important and made sure we all knew he 'has the money bitches'. He got called out because a fool and their money are easily parted. If it's not this game, something else will catch his retard fancy. Anyone that drops 15k(supposedly) on bitcoin shit that had a huge chance to go sideways is not the person I'd promote for great decisions. If you want to keep fueling a_skeleton_03's ego, that's fine but don't act like he was an intelligent donor.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Denaut_sl said:
I haven't really posted in this thread because I am a bit torn. I lead an amazing life and I have Sigil to thank for most of that. It is extremely uncouth to be negative and talk bad about the place that gave you your start, biting the hand that feeds you and all that. So I am just going to say this once.

Brad is completely incapable of delivering a good game, and unlikely to deliver one at all.

One look at the Visionary Realms team list tells me that he didn't learn any lessons from Vanguard and is repeating his past mistakes. It is nothing about the individual people that make up the team, but the skill-set he assembled at such a critical early juncture. It consists of:
Engineer - 1
Designers - 5
Artists - 3
Production/Marketing - 2

This tells me all I need to know about how little he has learned. In pre-production you want 1 good designer. You also want several engineers to start working on the technical foundation for your game. You don't need 5 designers to push paper around, because that doesn't matter at this point. 1 good designer can feed several engineers and artists, 5 designers feeding one engineer means they spend most of their time arguing or sitting on their thumb. You need those designers later tomakecontent, once production begins.

In fact, having 1 good designer is orders of magnitude better than 5 good designers this early. Too many cooks spoil the stew, and this couldn't be more true for game design.

As a caveat, it is possible those designers are relatively capable C# scripters that can handle much of the client side work, but their bios read more to me like traditional design. At the veryleast, making an MMO with Unity, you'd need 2 engineers. One client and one server.

I know this doesn't matter to most of the people here, but I thought I'd say it anyway. I am not going to go all crazy spouting hate, because it is pointless and not who I am. I would just rather see Kickstarter money go to young developers that are hungry to create the next big thing. Yea, it is a risk, but at least there is a chance, and new blood in the industry is something sorely needed.
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Okay. Please point me too the young developers' old school MMORPG kickstarter so I can contribute.
 
G

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
That's basically a carbon copy of what Bertox and about 20 people have already said. All kinds of young people are getting funded on Kickstarter so your wish has already come true. As for the young guns in the MMORPG community, they need to start sprouting up because the old guard apparently has the entire genre in its clutches.

I get that concept for individual companies, Nintendo is suffering that right now and it's draining every success they've had. But holy shit, I hope one of these young guys springs up soon and delivers us to the promise land soon because I've heard way too much about them.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
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tad10_sl said:
Okay. Please point me too the young developers' old school MMORPG kickstarter so I can contribute.
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I agree with this sentiment and the assumption that new blood is needed to fuel innovation is ridiculous. Every game gets a bit of new blood but how many young designers even played old EQ? The largest KS supported to date is an old school space sim by one of the old school designers. SOE is going all out on innovation with a very experienced crew. The thought that innovation is the property of the new or that new blood will suddenly bring forth another renaissance is laughable at best.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,106
293,059
zzeris_sl said:
That's just a load of shit and so is a_skeleton_03. No intelligent person donates 10k early to any project. He wanted to feel important and made sure we all knew he 'has the money bitches'. He got called out because a fool and their money are easily parted. If it's not this game, something else will catch his retard fancy. Anyone that drops 15k(supposedly) on bitcoin shit that had a huge chance to go sideways is not the person I'd promote for great decisions. If you want to keep fueling a_skeleton_03's ego, that's fine but don't act like he was an intelligent donor.
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Why do you all give a fuck, it was going to pledge great, if he wasn't that's cool too. It's no skin off anyone's balls here at fucking all. The only thing I think is a fucking joke was the fact kickstarter even contacted him in the first fucking place, unless they sent an email out to everyone to changed or pulled their pledge then it should never of been an issue. Also you say nobody would donate at the start of a kickstarter? Yes they would precisely because they can change their mind. Lets say there is a tier with few slots for rewards like this 10k one with 3 openings. You might hop on it when first launched thinking there would be more than made up fairytale bullshit, after a few days you realize hey wait a minute I am getting fucked here and pull your cash. Either way it doesn't fucking matter. I can only hope the last 10k gets pulled so everyone here loses their shit and starts crying about it.

Usually poorly thought out kickstarters are used as a joke such as.



but in this case there is no punchline, only cash grab.
 
Denaut

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
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tad10_sl said:
Okay. Please point me too the young developers' old school MMORPG kickstarter so I can contribute.
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news (ok not really), but what you want will never exist again, sorry. Brad isn't making it with Pantheon, even though you keep telling yourself that, and neither will anyone else ever.

What you want is to go back in time when MMORPGs were a new and exciting medium that was totally unexplored, full of magic and mystery. You want to be young again and re-experience your first kiss. That isn't, nor will it ever, happen. It can't. Mimicking poorly designed mechanics will not return you to a state of online gaming naivety, it will just make for a bad game.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,106
293,059
zzeris_sl said:
I agree with this sentiment and the assumption that new blood is needed to fuel innovation is ridiculous. Every game gets a bit of new blood but how many young designers even played old EQ? The largest KS supported to date is an old school space sim by one of the old school designers. SOE is going all out on innovation with a very experienced crew. The thought that innovation is the property of the new or that new blood will suddenly bring forth another renaissance is laughable at best.
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I've said it before but Brad is the George Lucas of MMO's, dude had one decent idea and lucked himself into success thanks to those around him doing the hefty lifting. Everything since his first fluke has shown that he doesn't have what it takes.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Convo_sl said:
Let's not forget there are young Devs on this team.
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Just pointing out Denaut raised a straw man. There is no group of young devs making an MMO.

I'm rather tired of people raising issues that I pointed out before this kickstarter begin as if they are sharing some unique insight.

Denaut buddy we know Brad can't produce, we know about the lack of programmers, we know about the poorly run kickstarter. But if this doesn't get funded your young devs in a garage won't ever show up because they will think no market exists.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Denaut_sl said:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news (ok not really), but what you want will never exist again, sorry. Brad isn't making it with Pantheon, even though you keep telling yourself that, and neither will anyone else ever.

What you want is to go back in time when MMORPGs were a new and exciting medium that was totally unexplored, full of magic and mystery. You want to be young again and re-experience your first kiss. That isn't, nor will it ever, happen. It can't. Mimicking poorly designed mechanics will not return you to a state of online gaming naivety, it will just make for a bad game.
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Now you're just being silly. Wanting non instanced dungeons and an ot dt combat system has nothing to do with teenage sexual experiences. But thanks for playing.
 
G

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
tad10_sl said:
Now you're just being silly. Wanting non instanced dungeons and an ot dt combat system has nothing to do with teenage sexual experiences. But thanks for playing.
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Seconded. Not sure what the fuck Denaut is going on about. Take a glance at some of the most successful Kickstarter projects, they're based around retro game design and a lot of them are fucking great. It's such a weird, flawed and way too common logic.
 
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