Path of Exile

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Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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The blender(and its many variants) is basically the typical physical DW melee build pretty much, the blender term just comes from how it looked when one guy showed a lategame bringer of rain build when it was added(it had double gore effects). It's a solid build but it requires quite good gear to work efficiently, specifically a bringer of rain but being a melee you also need a bunch of other stuff. It's fun to play though so I like it. Looking quickly at the build it uses a neutral DW spec which is nice since that means you can use whatever weapon you find, there's some non optimal things on the link I clicked(but since it's not final build it might have been a mistake when he was making the builds at various stages) and it's too light on health for a HC build from eyeballing it, haven't actually calculated but you play SC so that's ok.

In terms of skills you should consider going dual strike+splash asap, it'll do a lot more damage than reave if you're dual wielding. Reave is pretty much an aoe option for dagger/claw 1H builds. With the nerfs to Cleave, Dual Strike+splash is what you tend to use for DW, but Cleave can still kinda work maybe, probably no point in using it without aoe nodes though so mostly it's for ele cleave not phys cleave.

Main issue I see with this build as a first build is once you reach 75-80, progressing is going to require expensive upgrades. You can grind to 75 or even 80 in lunaris so it's not so bad up until that point and first maps are ok too but soon after you'll need 2 good weapons, BoR and very good health+resist gear especially since you can't use a chest with BoR or a shield while DWing. So your gear options are pretty much all expensive shit. But you can see once you get there, rerolling is very quick past the first char, you just buy a couple of 2H uniques and spectral throw shit to 50 in like 6-8hours.
 

Jackie Treehorn

<Gold Donor>
2,906
7,478
Thanks for the info.

Actually, yeah, I have been using dual strike a lot, too...splash though I don't think I have, need to check. Dual strike I always use on bosses and the like. I am dual wielding, and have a lot of the talents for it. Cool about rerolling, I'm sure I'll check out some other classes.
 

GrizzlyCL

Lord Nagafen Raider
73
0
Hey been playing this for a bit got an infernal blow + splash templar to lvl 35. Is it best to go towards the witch area to get more fire/aoe nodes? or head to marauder for more physical/health/armor? I use 1h mace + shield. Also, could I get an invite to the rerolled guild? IGN GrizzlyToga
 

Fogel

Mr. Poopybutthole
13,130
51,953
Go to marauder for the hp/phys/mace nodes, they're quite nice. Remember IB scales the fire damage off of your phys damage, so best to go phys over the elemental/fire nodes usually.
 

eVasiege_sl

shitlord
359
1
Hey been playing this for a bit got an infernal blow + splash templar to lvl 35. Is it best to go towards the witch area to get more fire/aoe nodes? or head to marauder for more physical/health/armor? I use 1h mace + shield. Also, could I get an invite to the rerolled guild? IGN GrizzlyToga
Well if you go Avatar of Fire build, then all your physical will convert to fire anyway. And it depends on whether you want to be more tanky or do more DPS. I'm going with mostly physical dmg nodes and a little fire, but I got all the health and armor nodes in the Templar starting area.
 

GrizzlyCL

Lord Nagafen Raider
73
0
I'll head towards marauder then. Hard to tell what exactly my build needs right now as I pretty much just destroy everything. I find flammability and searing bond to be really useful as well. Are there monsters in the game that are immune to fire damage?
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,217
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Resolute Techniques is nice for most melee builds that don't rely on dex a lot, so you don't miss, and it's especially good with IB so you don't crit explode a large pack of reflect mob and kill yourself. Critting isn't useful unless you build around it and unless you go toward shadow area or you're a bow user in ranger area, you're generally not going to do a crit build.

On the fire damage thing, actually that's not entirely true, while physical is better for the initial hit, the explosion itself isn't affected by physical but is affected by fire, meaning more fire means more aoe. It's a tradeoff. The nice node though in the witch area is the aoe thingie. You can also grab some cheap fire on the way(2points for 18%fire 15%fire resists is really nice imo). Shouldn't need to go further to the right side than the aoe node. I haven't really looked into the build but I'd focus on getting Resolute Technique in marauder area, diamond skin+the flat health/str node across too while there, then focus on going to witch aoe nodes, grab the big life node to the top on the way there that has chaos resists, then resume into marauder and grab all the stuff that leads to the marauder start. Then just stack health, like with the scion large health node that's easy access.

Also note that for IB, a lot of the time it'll be more beneficial damage wise to use Facebreaker unique gloves and no weapon for unarmed damage. Requires a bit of specific gearing though, including a Meginord's belt so that might turn out expensive.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
Alright, I'm done with PoE. I had already shelved it once but decided to give it a final chance because there was nothing else to play lately, and it's just hopeless. A full week of playing, doing maps pretty much exclusively the entire time. +70% quantity and +160% rarity. Not one single worthwhile drop in a week. A whole fucking week and I don't find anything nice, just crap rares and low-level uniques. This game is blatantly designed to force you into trading if you want to scratch the surface, replicating the biggest problem that D3 had and rendering solo play completely pointless. After a full month of farming Piety and maps, I have yet to find the pieces to reasonably start up a new character with an interesting build of any kind.

I'm not even expecting godlike super-loot as a self-found player, just things like perhaps a 500+ ES chest or a unique like Soul Taker or Marohi Erqi that's realistically findable and worth making a build around. After a full fucking month of farming in IIR/IIQ gear, I haven't found any of this. PoE is a broken piece of shit trading simulator that doesn't reward you, it just shoves you into the trade channel where you self-medicate the game's flaws. It's D3 all over again, farming for currency to buy items that other people found so you can play in gear that you didn't obtain yourself, without even having the decency to offer proper trading facilities, and that's fucking retarded. They can have their lag-plagued garbage back.
 

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
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Be glad you quit after a month of it, took me months and months before I gave up on maps. I still play but not constantly like before. It's just futile grinding with the expectation you'll actually get something worthwhile.

Edit: my iiq and iir were both much higher than yours as well.
 

Elerion

N00b
735
46
Are you guys new to ARPGs?

First, the chance of someone else finding the gear you want is astronomically higher than you finding it. That's just math. You can't expect a "self found" character to be as strong as a trading character if you want any depth to the loot. You'd need to go to a fixed drop / no drop system for that to happen, and that would defeat most of the fun of the game. As long as the game has trading available, the most efficient route to gearing up will ALWAYS be to sell the stuff you find and buy the stuff you want. If the chance of finding the best items was higher (as you seem to want), it would just make the best items cheaper and further destroy any usefulness of all the mediocre items. Furthermore, if the best gear was easier to find, there would be no point playing the game after you had beat the highest level maps.

Second, aside from 3-4 uniques in fringe builds, you don't NEED any of the best items for anything. There are probably 15 highly viable hardcore builds and twice as many softcore builds that work just fine with decent rares. I'm sure Ground Slamming with Marohi Erqi is fun, but any high phys roll mace will work pretty much the same.

PoE is MILES different from vanilla D3 in the self-found viability category.
- PoE drops level appropriate gear. D3 dropped gear BELOW your level, meaning trading would always be better than anything you found.
- PoE's skills scale off gem levels, passives and random prefix/suffixes. D3's skills mainly scaled off the item level dependent DPS of your weapon, meaning anything you could buy would be miles better than what you have.
- PoE's endgame content can be performed with decidedly mediocre gear, it will just be slower. D3 had giant gear check walls on its endgame content. At one point in D3 it was pretty much impossible for certain classes to progress in Inferno without buying a weapon from someone that was further progressed.
- PoE's trading is a big time sink, due to the lack of an automated AH and universal currency. D3's trading was damn near instant.

The result is that playing the game and farming is a viable alternative to trading in PoE (until the bleeding high end), while in D3 you were wasting your time if you were farming in the game instead of playing the AH.

In short, PoE isn't "designed to force you into trading" - it just has really rare stuff that you need to be lucky or play a lot to get. That's no different than Diablo 2 or any other ARPG with random loot. Do you have any idea how long you had to farm in D2 if you wanted the rarest gear in that game?
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
You can't expect a "self found" character to be as strong as a trading character
We don't, and have very specifically mentioned this so as to ward off fallacious bullshit like yours. Didn't seem to work.

Self-found play should be reasonably viable within the premises of the game. It isn't really, because almost every long-term goal in this game is gated behind a gear check that can't possibly be met without heavy trading. You simply don't find good enough items yourself to do more than the most basic, shallow things like completing the campaign on merciless, reaching level 80 and things like that. Any more is pretty literally impossible without trading. There's nothing wrong with trading being more effective, but there's definitely something wrong with it being absolutely required in order to scratch the surface of the game.

- PoE drops level appropriate gear. D3 dropped gear BELOW your level, meaning trading would always be better than anything you found.
That's just completely incorrect. Isn't PoE the game where 95% of unique drops are under level 30? In D3, the game is hardcoded to not drop items too far below your level. This was the case even at launch, although that threshold was further raised in a later patch. PoE doesn't drop things with an ilvl below that of the zone, but it can drop item types of any level. I'm not even remotely hyperbolic when I say that nearly every unique one finds is low-level trash, to the point where there are entire weekends where I don't find a unique above level 50. The ilvl doesn't matter there, nor does it for cruel-difficulty items dropped in merciless and maps.

- PoE's skills scale off gem levels, passives and random prefix/suffixes. D3's skills mainly scaled off the item level dependent DPS of your weapon, meaning anything you could buy would be miles better than what you have.
This has nothing to do with the fact that good items are way, waaaaay too rare in PoE.

- PoE's endgame content can be performed with decidedly mediocre gear, it will just be slower. D3 had giant gear check walls on its endgame content. At one point in D3 it was pretty much impossible for certain classes to progress in Inferno without buying a weapon from someone that was further progressed.
PoE's endgame is pretty undefined. Some seem to think any maps at all count as endgame, others feel that it's only really maplvl 72+ or thereabouts. One is most definitely barred from the real endgame, i.e. the higher map levels, as it's completely impossible to build up any serious amount of them without trading. The currency investment that goes into high-level mapping (and, consequently, reaching level 90+) is immense and in no way sustainable with drops. More importantly, clear speed with self-found gear is unbearably slow after maplvl 70ish, to the point where it's almost an exercise in futility at times. Certain bosses and even just elites can take minutes to kill, not because they're difficult mobs but because their defensive stats clearly aren't tuned for the kind of DPS that can be achieved without artificially inflating your gear via trading.

- PoE's trading is a big time sink, due to the lack of an automated AH and universal currency. D3's trading was damn near instant.
Is this some kind of argument for anything? Yeah, PoE's trading facilities are an utter joke, which is ridiculous because the gameplay mandates so much trading.

Good loot is just excessively rare in this game and it completely destroys self-found longevity because you very much will end up farming for weeks and weeks without ever finding anything worthwhile. This makes the gameplay completely pointless and unrewarding while at the same time doing nothing to actually make trading appealing other than it being the only way to "get anywhere" in PoE. This is PRECISELY the problem D3 had in the beginning. Like, an exact replica of the issue.

If PoE had strong multiplayer gameplay and convenient trading facilities, it would have been a completely different story, but I'm sure you would have to agree that neither is the case. Every game has a effort vs. reward curve, and PoE's is so far off the mark that it boggles the mind. They've made the process of finding your own gear so miserable and prohibitive that it's beyond any possible dispute that they intend for everyone to trade in order to unlock access to the parts of the game that are worth playing. They've gone so far as to officially state that they do not want to support self-found play in any way, yet simultaneously neglect to make the game's multiplayer gameplay or trading facilities any good at all. In fact, both are so poor that many want to play self-found precisely because the multiplayer and trading is so utterly terrible in this game.

I just hate how people insist on responding to this as if the desire to play self-found is some kind of overly entitled, unreasonable request, or make baseless claims that the game is perfectly fine when played that way when in reality it is deeply, fundamentally flawed and borderline broken. This is a genre where solo play is a common choice, it's not as if I'm asking for viable self-found play in World of Warcraft or something. The multiplayer facilities are nowhere near good enough to justify snubbing solo play as bluntly as GGG have, and it's doubly stupid when they have not only suggested in the past that they wanted to cater to every venue of play but also have the means to effortlessly do so with their woefully underutilized league system. It's very much as if they simply dislike players who like anything outside the mainstream format and refuse to do anything for us out of principle. This also goes for the cutthroat league, for instance, and whatever else people have been requesting for two years now. Wasn't this supposed to be the custom league ARPG?

If ever there was a game where it would be natural to cater to less mainstream preferences, it seems that PoE should have been it, but they've completely dropped the ball on their promises of providing this, not just with regard to solo play but anything that would fit within the league structure that they've so woefully failed to provide. They promised all kinds of things and then, two years later, have provided only a few very underwhelming league formats that nobody has ever requested while constantly ignoring every single thing that people do request in that regard. I'm pretty sure not one single person has ever suggested things like the Anarchy league etc., but where is any of the stuff for which there is actually a widespread demand?
 

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,632
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Are you guys new to ARPGs?

First, the chance of someone else finding the gear you want is astronomically higher than you finding it. That's just math. You can't expect a "self found" character to be as strong as a trading character if you want any depth to the loot. You'd need to go to a fixed drop / no drop system for that to happen, and that would defeat most of the fun of the game. As long as the game has trading available, the most efficient route to gearing up will ALWAYS be to sell the stuff you find and buy the stuff you want. If the chance of finding the best items was higher (as you seem to want), it would just make the best items cheaper and further destroy any usefulness of all the mediocre items. Furthermore, if the best gear was easier to find, there would be no point playing the game after you had beat the highest level maps.

Second, aside from 3-4 uniques in fringe builds, you don't NEED any of the best items for anything. There are probably 15 highly viable hardcore builds and twice as many softcore builds that work just fine with decent rares. I'm sure Ground Slamming with Marohi Erqi is fun, but any high phys roll mace will work pretty much the same.

PoE is MILES different from vanilla D3 in the self-found viability category.
- PoE drops level appropriate gear. D3 dropped gear BELOW your level, meaning trading would always be better than anything you found.
- PoE's skills scale off gem levels, passives and random prefix/suffixes. D3's skills mainly scaled off the item level dependent DPS of your weapon, meaning anything you could buy would be miles better than what you have.
- PoE's endgame content can be performed with decidedly mediocre gear, it will just be slower. D3 had giant gear check walls on its endgame content. At one point in D3 it was pretty much impossible for certain classes to progress in Inferno without buying a weapon from someone that was further progressed.
- PoE's trading is a big time sink, due to the lack of an automated AH and universal currency. D3's trading was damn near instant.

The result is that playing the game and farming is a viable alternative to trading in PoE (until the bleeding high end), while in D3 you were wasting your time if you were farming in the game instead of playing the AH.

In short, PoE isn't "designed to force you into trading" - it just has really rare stuff that you need to be lucky or play a lot to get. That's no different than Diablo 2 or any other ARPG with random loot. Do you have any idea how long you had to farm in D2 if you wanted the rarest gear in that game?
No, I'm not new to ARPG's at all, I've been playing them for 15+ years, and I have played a very large amount of them. I feel justified in saying POE is one of the worst ever as far as useful/rare loot dropping.

Level appropriate doesn't really apply to this game, seeing as getting a good combination of stats, with good rolls is what you need, and isn't really related to level once you get past a certain ilevel point. Early in the game yes, decent gear drops because it doesn't matter what you are wearing. Late in the game it matters quite a bit more, and it's ridiculous how infrequent a good item drops.

I've been playing this game for a year and the only pieces of gear I can think of that dropped for me worth noting is a nice unique glove (maligaros, which while nice are fairly common/cheap), and a decent (i really mean decent it's not that great) midlevel ring with high IIQ and a high resist combo. That's it, the rest has been traded for, or given to me. Oh I have several tabs full of shitty uniques, that I use for the hell of it when leveling up new characters. I've never played an ARPG anywhereremotelyas stingy as this game. I do not expect to log on and be a badass in a month or two of playing, nor do i expect to have every item in the game after a year of playing, but I do expect to be able to show off a few items off after a few months, and I should have found a few of the rarer build-enabling items by a year, shit.

Trading is the only way to do that in this game and there is no good way to do it. Tabbing back and forth between a forum and the game trying to catch someone online who will respond to tells and has a reasonable price is the dumbest fucking trade system I've ever seen. Should you be able to be fully self found? Hell no, it's a multi-player game. Should I find something worth a fuck once in a while all by myself? Yes, wtf.

Don't get me wrong, I still like the game and play it quite a bit, but I couldlovethe game and play it a lot more if it felt rewarding to do so. They've done pretty much everything right except maps (improved a little lately), crafting (as bad or worse than loot rarity), and loot rarity/trading.
 

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,490
5,240
PoE is a fun game until you get to the second 'tier' of mapping with a lot of great ideas--some realized and some only with potential still--but it also has the stingiest loot system ever devised by man. If there's a game that's worse, I haven't played it, and I'm quite thankful for that.

I would probably have kept playing it casually, but there's really no point in that. You pretty much have to go all in on a build that works great today, trading as much as possible to get the items it requires. Even just leveling characters to 60-70 in the hope that some day they will transfer the person who coded their RNG drops (sadly, I'm about 90% sure this is Chris' doing) over to janitorial services is a waste of time since there's no guarantee the spec you chose will still be viable by the time you want to play the character seriously, and hoping for a reroll based on nerfs that happened in the meantime is a crap shoot at best.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,720
Yeah, I'd have to agree. I played pretty hardcore for a few months and as you can see from the list of uniques I had (one of which I traded for, Death's Harp) none of them are worth much past twinking a new low level character and carrying him to mid level. I had a few decent rares, but a lot of times, that comes from enchanting drops yourself. Just not very rewarding to me. And the whole RNG crap of links and colors, ugh.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
The whole itemization thing is just making me question how much further I should push this game. I'm 51 now and don't know shit about it except that I just played through almost the entire cruel campaign, finding not a single upgrade. I don't like the re-enchant lottery too much either. Knowing I could sink all my "money" into an item and still end up with nothing isn't really helping.

Combat is fun, so I got that going for it, which is nice. If only mass zombies actually worked with bosses...
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,801
5,418
- PoE drops level appropriate gear. D3 dropped gear BELOW your level, meaning trading would always be better than anything you found.
i may be late to the party but just wanted to point out this is absolutely wrong. While PoE will drop enchantments on gear up to your level, it more often be of a lower tier. As well as the fact you can find rares of any type, even low level weapons and armor, in maps.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,217
2,365
You always get the right ilvl but yeah it's often on a lower level base, and depending on how reliant you are in the base stats it can end up really shitty even though it has good stats. Especially true for weapons on attack based builds and chest armor(which tends to have the most armor/es/ev stats so getting a lvl 15ish one is a huge loss of defensive stats). Also even though you get the right ilvl, it can still roll entire shit obviously, since it doesn't exclude the lower tier rolls so it can still roll 15str or whatever.

And yeah overall finding items isn't terribly fast and self found isn't really viable besides specific builds and only until a certain level(which varies depending on the build you picked and your luck with drops).

Diablo3 in comparison is actually much better now, they changed a bunch of shit to inferno drops and the mp scaling lets you ignore MF as a stat and still get a lot more drops of higher quality due to bigger mob density, plus paragon levels help even more with MF. I was a bit surprised when I picked up the game again and I was actually finding large amounts of gear quickly while farming for my hellfire ring. I found 4 or 5 pretty good pieces(not like anything that can sell on the AH for a good amount but items that back during release would have been considered excelent) and half a dozen of legendaries, and I only played like 40hours total, 15ish of which were leveling and 5ish afking. And it'll get better again when they release RoS and remove the AH.

Maybe once RoS releases they'll think about making a self found league to draw people back after they get bored of RoS. It wouldn't be too hard to run I think, just add league wide buffs like the 4months leagues or races, with like +200%quantity +500%quality or whatever. That's really all that would be needed, exact numbers I have no idea but it's simple to implement, oh and no trade which is already done for solo races. I don't think they need separate servers for separate leagues so don't know why they don't do something like that(or permanent cutthroat).
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,801
5,418
Maybe once RoS releases they'll think about making a self found league to draw people back after they get bored of RoS. It wouldn't be too hard to run I think, just add league wide buffs like the 4months leagues or races, with like +200%quantity +500%quality or whatever. That's really all that would be needed, exact numbers I have no idea but it's simple to implement, oh and no trade which is already done for solo races. I don't think they need separate servers for separate leagues so don't know why they don't do something like that(or permanent cutthroat).
the problem with a self found league is that in PoE self found has to be solo.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
1,230
288
Are you guys new to ARPGs?

First, the chance of someone else finding the gear you want is astronomically higher than you finding it. That's just math. You can't expect a "self found" character to be as strong as a trading character if you want any depth to the loot.
Agree with this in PoE and vanilla D3. It wasn't the case in D2:LoD though. I very rarely traded in that game. Finding gear you can use is a massive part of the attraction in an ARPG for me and many others.

In this respect PoE fails miserably for me - you will very rarely find anything you can use. Yes D3 did too - and it cost jobs and is totally being reworked.