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Pyros

Pyros

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Byr_sl said:
the problem with a self found league is that in PoE self found has to be solo.
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I just said that though? Or do you mean that you'd want to play in a group but self found? I guess they could do what RoS is doing, with items becoming soulbound but tradeable with your group for an hour(tbh should be like a couple of days and should work with anyone on your friend list for a while at the time of the drop). Granted that's more work. They could also have permanent allocation on all the time, with trading disabled, and maybe work something out for item dropping(like they're still allocated to you when you drop them). This way you can group, but you can't trade or can't loot stuff from other people.

There's a few choices tbh, especially if they use the friend list or guild to restrict the trading possibilities, to make it group friendly but still "self found".
 
Byr

Byr

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friend list or guild isnt possible, they would just be revolving doors for trading purposes. They would have to overhaul some coding for loot.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Byr_sl said:
friend list or guild isnt possible, they would just be revolving doors for trading purposes. They would have to overhaul some coding for loot.
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As I said, it would require being in the same list for a while before to open trading. You could have a massive guild of people who stay together and just trade with each other but that wouldn't really be an issue because, who the fuck cares, if you can self found who cares about trading. But it could just be like D3 is doing an only have a small window of time to trade shit with people in your group if they were there when it dropped. I think permanent allocation/no trade would work out fine though, you wouldn't be able to trade with people but you could still group together. It probably wouldn't require too much effort to make and then they can work later on to allow temporary trading and what not.
 
Argarth

Argarth

On the verandah
1,250
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Pyros_sl said:
Maybe once RoS releases they'll think about making a self found league to draw people back after they get bored of RoS. It wouldn't be too hard to run I think, just add league wide buffs like the 4months leagues or races, with like +200%quantity +500%quality or whatever. That's really all that would be needed, exact numbers I have no idea but it's simple to implement, oh and no trade which is already done for solo races. I don't think they need separate servers for separate leagues so don't know why they don't do something like that(or permanent cutthroat).
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Not much hope of that ever happening given emphatic statements like this...

Copied from the PoE forums:

Having a league where everything is soulboundis of no interest to us. We welcome players to play self-found if they'd like to (and are trying to make sure its balance is fair where we can - several of the changes in release address item acquisition and solo vs party balance), but it's important that players can trade their items if they so choose.

-Chris Wilson to incgamers

Path of Exile Interview with Grinding Gear Games CEO Chris Wilson | Page: 2 | IncGamers.com

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F

Flight

Molten Core Raider
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Argarth_sl said:
Not much hope of that ever happening given emphatic statements like this...

Copied from the PoE forums:

Having a league where everything is soulboundis of no interest to us. We welcome players to play self-found if they?d like to (and are trying to make sure its balance is fair where we can ? several of the changes in release address item acquisition and solo vs party balance), but it?s important that players can trade their items if they so choose.

-Chris Wilson to incgamers

Path of Exile Interview with Grinding Gear Games CEO Chris Wilson | Page: 2 | IncGamers.com

============
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Perfectly Executed - Diablo III Interview With Jay Wilson : In our minds Diablo 3 has never been a single player game.Perfectly Executed - Diablo III Interview With Jay Wilson - GameSpot

And on the AH : What I said, and what is true, is that with far more players and an increased proliferation of item trade, we have to factor in how many items are being found by players and how quickly a player can gear up by 'sourcing' items from others through trade and the convenience of the gold auction house.



What Chris Wilson said pre release may or may not remain the case after most of the players leave PoE for RoS but I will be very surprised if many people go back to PoE after RoS simply because of the lack of feeling of reward in loot. Playing PoE I don't - ever - expect to get any reward in the shape of loot. It's just about testing theories and builds out.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Yes I know about that, but as I said, they might reconsider it after RoS release depending on how it's received. RoS is basically self found only more or less, you can trade rares but legendaries are BoE and for the most part are better than rares in that slot in almost every cases due to being able to reforge stuff and smart loot and what not which also makes finding good rares fairly easy. That pretty much means there shouldn't be much of a market for trading at all in RoS. Maybe it'll give them ideas. Wouldn't expect it before a few months after at least, which means middle of the next year at the earliest.
 
A

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
Quineloe_sl said:
Knowing I could sink all my "money" into an item and still end up with nothing isn't really helping.
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Oh, and that will happen. It will happen again and again and again and again. I found a 5L thicket bow at one point and decided to just keep chaosing it until I got a nice roll and then build a ranger around it. 50+ chaos orbs later, I hadn't got a single set of remotely usable stats. Not even just no great rolls but literally no rolls that yielded a weapon that could possibly be used at all.

Rolling up a good item takes such a laughably absurd and broken amount of currency, it's utterly retarded. You know those really good crafted rares? It easily takes 30+ exalted and eternal orbs to make one, as well as thousands of alterations and dozens of regals to get the first affixes. This would very literally take years to get by yourself. The currency you get from farming for two months is statistically almost guaranteed to yield you nothing good whatsoever because the maths are so overwhelmingly against you and the system is blatantly designed to only be available to trade junkies and RMTers (which is apparently becoming a big problem -- wonder why.)

I started the new leagues out with a character that I intended to farm with until I had the pieces to start up a new build, and that simply never happened. After a month, I still hadn't found a single build-enabling item or enough decent rares to feel ready for any worthwhile build. In a month I never found a good bow, never found a good wand or caster dagger, never found a high-ES chest, never found that trapper belt or Searing Touch or anything like that which would have been the centerpiece of a build. I got a few good rares, a few good uniques, but just nowhere near enough to justify the kind of time it takes to get anywhere in this game. The tuning of time vs. rewards in PoE is so bizarrely bad that it's almost insulting.
 
Jim Russel

Jim Russel

Lord Nagafen Raider
509
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I think you guys are overestimating the gear it takes to be in endgame maps with a good build.

This guy got to level 89 and was high on the nemesis ladder in 6 days played with the gear in the first page (he's upgraded since)
Forum - Marauder - Alkaizer Nemesis 89 Marauder Solo - Path of Exile
A 5L marohi is like 10ex but otherwise that gear is shit. In the post he really emphasizes playstyle as an important factor in his success (potion management and moving around).
 
A

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
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The Marohi is 90% of that build. You're basically highlighting how trading is the way to accomplish anything meaningful in this game.

I farmed non-stop for a month and saved all rare imperial mauls, piledrivers, terror mauls and meatgrinders for the 5x rare recipe, as well as chancing about 100 karui mauls. After a full month of doing that,thiswas the best 2hander I had obtained. Then I just gave up.
 
H

headspace

Lord Nagafen Raider
56
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axeman_sl said:
Oh, and that will happen. It will happen again and again and again and again. I found a 5L thicket bow at one point and decided to just keep chaosing it until I got a nice roll and then build a ranger around it. 50+ chaos orbs later, I hadn't got a single set of remotely usable stats. Not even just no great rolls but literally no rolls that yielded a weapon that could possibly be used at all.
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You guys think crafting is a huge waste of currency because you are doing it completely wrong. The correct way to craft that bow would have been to scour it, then use alterations on it until you got two good stats, then finally use a regal on it.
 
Hateyou

Hateyou

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headspace_sl said:
You guys think crafting is a huge waste of currency because you are doing it completely wrong. The correct way to craft that bow would have been to scour it, then use alterations on it until you got two good stats, then finally use a regal on it.
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When I said crafting sucked I wasn't referring to that, I agree that would be the best way to craft a 5L.

I was referring to trying to make a 5s,5l, 6s, 6l colored the way you need with an existing item. Saving up currency for weeks to try and getting nothing is disheartening.

The best way to craft is to trade currency for an existing item rather than craft. Again back to trading.
 
H

headspace

Lord Nagafen Raider
56
0
Hateyou_sl said:
When I said crafting sucked I wasn't referring to that, I agree that would be the best way to craft a 5L.

I was referring to trying to make a 5s,5l, 6s, 6l colored the way you need with an existing item. Saving up currency for weeks to try and getting nothing is disheartening.

The best way to craft is to trade currency for an existing item rather than craft. Again back to trading.
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I hate to come off a pedantic, but getting the colors you need should be one of the easiest crafts in the game. I can end up with over 100 chromatics from just a weekend of playing. Make sure you pick up any drop that have red green and blue sockets linked. Those trade in for a chromatic from the vendors, but most importantly make sure you are only going for socket colors that are reasonable. The rolls for color are skewed based on item stat requirements. For example, a plate chest requiring 200 strength will be almost impossible to roll 2 or more blue or green sockets on. Each socket has roughly a 90 percent chance of rolling red.
 
Jim Russel

Jim Russel

Lord Nagafen Raider
509
50
axeman_sl said:
The Marohi is 90% of that build. You're basically highlighting how trading is the way to accomplish anything meaningful in this game.

I farmed non-stop for a month and saved all rare imperial mauls, piledrivers, terror mauls and meatgrinders for the 5x rare recipe, as well as chancing about 100 karui mauls. After a full month of doing that,thiswas the best 2hander I had obtained. Then I just gave up.
Click to expand...
My point isn't that self-found is a reasonable way of playing. My point is that the amount of trading you need to do is pretty minimal when you stop assuming that you need godly gear in every slot.

Your maul is fairly good and it only takes a handful of fuse to 4l it. You could buy an even better one for like 6c and 4l that. If we agree on one thing it's that you need to be really rich to try some of the more obscure and creative builds which sucks. I have a lot of build ideas which I get excited about that just aren't possible without expensive uniques. Maybe I should try thinking of builds that don't rely on unique at all....
 
Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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While I would argue that the color restrictions on items based on the stats required to equip them are too strict, you (headspace) focused on a trivial part of his post and ignored the rest.

5L'ing a 5S item can take a few hundred unfusings, and using well over a thousand to 6L an item is by no means an uncommon occurrence. The worst offender (to me) is that using jeweler's orbs to 6S an item can take 500+. 6S isn't even anything special; when you find that on a white 9 times out of 10 you're going to vendor it for 7 orbs because you are still looking at 200-300 unfusings to 5L it or 800+ to 6L. On a good day.

Like I said several pages back, the simplest fix--since Chris Wilson is clearly the type of developer who gets married to his ideas and a complete redesign is highly unlikely--would be to modify the RNG TERA-style. The more unfusings you use on an item, the more likely it is to roll a 5L or 6L; the more jewelers you use the more likely 6S gets; etc. That doesn't improve any other part of the RNG retard-fest though, you could still spend a thousand alterations on a ilvl78 item and never get a pair of max level affixes, let alone the exact two you want. Not saying that should be easy to do, of course, but I believe there should at least be something like a -30 cap on the level of the affix compared to the ilvl of the item. There are simply far too many combinations in rolling an item the ways things stand right now.

P.S. Having to type /itemlevel to see the ilvl instead of it being on the tooltip is still fucking clownshoes.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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axeman_sl said:
Oh, and that will happen. It will happen again and again and again and again. I found a 5L thicket bow at one point and decided to just keep chaosing it until I got a nice roll and then build a ranger around it. 50+ chaos orbs later, I hadn't got a single set of remotely usable stats. Not even just no great rolls but literally no rolls that yielded a weapon that could possibly be used at all.

Rolling up a good item takes such a laughably absurd and broken amount of currency, it's utterly retarded. You know those really good crafted rares? It easily takes 30+ exalted and eternal orbs to make one, as well as thousands of alterations and dozens of regals to get the first affixes. This would very literally take years to get by yourself. The currency you get from farming for two months is statistically almost guaranteed to yield you nothing good whatsoever because the maths are so overwhelmingly against you and the system is blatantly designed to only be available to trade junkies and RMTers (which is apparently becoming a big problem -- wonder why.)

I started the new leagues out with a character that I intended to farm with until I had the pieces to start up a new build, and that simply never happened. After a month, I still hadn't found a single build-enabling item or enough decent rares to feel ready for any worthwhile build. In a month I never found a good bow, never found a good wand or caster dagger, never found a high-ES chest, never found that trapper belt or Searing Touch or anything like that which would have been the centerpiece of a build. I got a few good rares, a few good uniques, but just nowhere near enough to justify the kind of time it takes to get anywhere in this game. The tuning of time vs. rewards in PoE is so bizarrely bad that it's almost insulting.
Click to expand...
I crafted maybe the 7th (it was literally 3 tiers total below the mirror service helm, 2 tiers on int and 1 tier on one of the ES rolls) best ES helmet in the game when I was playing with 3 exalteds, 1 regal, and maybe 100 alterations...

As far as finding loot, it's the same as every single other game like this out there in that you need magic find to find the items. I found 4 searing touches in 1 day, crafted multiple 600+ ES chests for dirt cheap (other than the jewelers/fusings to 5L and 6L them), etc. etc.
 
Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Magic find as a concept should have stayed in decade-old games where it belongs.
 
Vorph

Vorph

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Not every one. Hell, even Diablo 3 has largely gotten rid of it, at least as a stat on items. Paragon level quickly renders it moot, the only problem remaining is that it still clogs up a line in the table of loot affixes. Hopefully the shit won't even appear on items in the expansion.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Which ones don't use it? I don't consider "ok if you can powergrind 2billion exp(or however much paragon 100 is) we'll give you free magic find" getting rid of it...

Last I remember from Torchlight 2 they had it, PoE has it, D3 has it, D2 had it, I don't count borderlands and I didn't play Dead Island so that one might. TQ was too long ago for me to remember if it did or not. Also, D3 loot is a joke even with magic find, so that's not really relevant.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Wizardhawk_sl said:
Which ones don't use it? I don't consider "ok if you can powergrind 2billion exp(or however much paragon 100 is) we'll give you free magic find" getting rid of it...

Last I remember from Torchlight 2 they had it, PoE has it, D3 has it, D2 had it, I don't count borderlands and I didn't play Dead Island so that one might. TQ was too long ago for me to remember if it did or not. Also, D3 loot is a joke even with magic find, so that's not really relevant.
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You get a large bonus to magic find just cranking up the mp level. You can easily do mp 2 or 3 with basically self found shit upon hitting inferno. If you go on the AH you can scrounge up a set of gear able to do mp 5 to 8 depending on your class for less than the money you made while leveling(which is about a million give or take). You also get paragon levels really fast at that mp, at least the first ones. As I mentionned earlier I played something like 15ish hours at max level, I was farming keys for hellfire ring for RoS preparation(and cause I had nothing else to do) and I got paragon 19 or something doing it. It wasn't even the efficient way to farm paragon.

D3 still has the stat for sure, but literally no one uses the stat other than on your follower because why not and I guess self found people but even then, the amount you get compared to what you get for free is rarely worth it unless you don't lose any other stat. Also one of the big changes they made to the game was increase mob density a lot in inferno. That's why it's fast to get paragon levels or find shit, every zone is full of fucking mobs, like 10+ mobs per packs everywhere, you just run around a sec, group up a bunch of shit and explode them all in one skill.

I don't think that's the issue anyway, MF is actually a decent concept imo, it's just that even with a MF build you don't necessarily find anything useful in PoE because the odds are fairly low due to how items are rolled. If you sell shit you can have the currency to craft good gear, but if you don't want to trade it's unlikely you'll get enough currency to craft more than one item if that, and even doing crafting the right way you'll still possibly end up with nothing good(and you'll most likely need to trade for currency at some point). Personally never really affected me since I don't care about endgame, only about making builds.
 
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