Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
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Burns
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You can use mods to level up and respec a fresh toon over and over again, to play with different builds. The ones on Nexus work well enough, although 3 of the mythic paths wont unlock in the starting area, and 2 of them are advanced level 7+. So that gives you 4 mythic paths and all the classes to build out.
I have found a few broken things in some classes/mythics, but it could be due to using the mods to respec. Example: Loremaster prestige class doesn't seem to be working correctly, the tooltip says you can chose a priest, druid, or wizard spell to put in your book, but instead you can chose any talent, regardless of the pre-reqs (including things that wont work for your class).
My start:
I wanted to play a Brown-Fur Transmuter (Arcanist) Angel, but after getting to the first dungeon, I realized that you cant combine arcane caster and the Angel spell book (which gives you access to spell circles earlier). I mean, it would still be powerful, just later in the game. Angel gets a shit ton of buffs, and all the Divine self only ones can be put on the whole party with Brown Fur (as well as putting all the self only wizard spells on the party, and shifting pets into Dragons). It would also feel like a waste to do Angel and not combine it with a Divine spell book.
So I have now spent hours using the mods to look at different builds...
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I've been reading up on the game this evening, and more than likely going to buy it. Haven't bought a game in a long while but it looks like it'll be a lot of fun. I never played King Maker, but it's on my steam backlist.
Should I play it prior to playing this game?
I understand basic d&d mechanics, but never played Pathfinder. It looks like it's 3.5 and 5th edition combined sort of.
Was also wondering what wacky combinations people are thinking about with multi-classing and the mythic paths. I guess that's why I'm so interested in the game because it looks like you can do a lot of fun things. Just curious what anybody else has planned for their initial playthrough.
Should I play it prior to playing this game?
I understand basic d&d mechanics, but never played Pathfinder. It looks like it's 3.5 and 5th edition combined sort of.
Was also wondering what wacky combinations people are thinking about with multi-classing and the mythic paths. I guess that's why I'm so interested in the game because it looks like you can do a lot of fun things. Just curious what anybody else has planned for their initial playthrough.
goishen
Macho Ma'am
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There's really no need to play Kingmaker before this. The stories do tie together, but not in a "Hey, you remember me?" kind'a memberberries way, at least from what I've heard.
So, I decided to make a halfling spirit shaman. Come to find out, there's already a spirit shaman in my group. fml.
So, I decided to make a halfling spirit shaman. Come to find out, there's already a spirit shaman in my group. fml.
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If I remember right it's hundreds of years after Kingmaker. You'll get some references to it but it's very generic.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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You wouldn't be missing anything perse, by not playing Kingmaker first, as they are totally different stories. Although, it might feel worse to learn the game with all the updated options, in Wrath, and then go back to Kingmaker. Kingmaker still has a ton of options, and Wrath makes it even more complex.
goishen
You can always repec the companions with mods. Unfortunately, the shaman companion has a locked neck slot, and dunno how her story plays out with it. Also, classes don't really matter that much in the into area, so you could always just wait, then bench her for a merc once you get to the first base, or run two shaman until you find more companions.- 1
Grabbit Allworth
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I must be wired completely differently, because I have NEVER done this. I've played and finished every Iso-RPG there is and always finished the entire game with the first character I made. For better or worse, I stuck with it.
My D&D game just finished and I'm at character creation for WoTR, but I'm a little disappointed that rogues, apparently, suck in PF. I honestly don't know shit about the game other than what little I learned from Kingmaker and the parallels that can be drawn from D&D. I stumbled my way through Kingmaker with a complete party of single-class characters. However, from the little I've read today, multi-classing is almost required for a competent character. Which sucks because I really dislike multiclassing, in general.
Class/Sub-class is all I want. I hate the mini-game of splashing levels for maximum face melting.
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Yeah, multi-classing shenanigans is one of the largest reasons I hated D&D 3.5, which is primarily what Pathfinder is based on.
Urlithani
Vyemm Raider
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You'll be okay if you're just playing core rules. A lot of the ratings people put on classes is based on unfair difficulty where you have to cheese to get 70+ AC. I have a rogue/vivisectionist as a tank I'm making. Not gonna dip into anything else, and it should be fine.
However I do recommend this guys single class builds page. Hard to find single class builds.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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Thug Rogue is a beast at the Dazzling -> Cornugon Smash -> Shatter Defenses line. Knife Master rogue is great dps and can also set up shatter DFence. A pure build on them will do fine in everything outside of Unfair (would probably be fine in unfair if you babysit them with stealth/vanish/invis in turn base mode).
Edit:
I don't know how it plays below hard, but this is what I found when playing with unmolested companions (pure w/o respec) in KM: Low Ac melee need more management on placement and planing ahead for body blocking with high AC toons and pets/summons. Invis pots and Vanish from your casters may also be needed.
In Wrath, you can get some help with the Mythic path of the Trickster, which will allow you to use the sneak skill to vanish and port around (if I am remembering right).
Examples from Kingmaker to give ideas (from bookmarks that I used in various runs):
Champion of Debilitation
Race & Abilities
Levels & Feats
Skills
Items
Explanation of Build
Race & Abilities
Muse-Touched Aasimar (+2 Dex, +2 Cha)
Lawful Good
STR:13
DEX: 18
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 16
Ability Increases from Level: All to Dex
Ability Increases from Items: Belt to Dex, Headband to Cha
Levels & Feats
1st Rogue (Thug) : Power Attack
2nd Rogue (Thug): Rogue Ability (Weapon Focus: Rapier)
3rd Rogue (Thug): Dazzling Display
4th Paladin
5th Paladin Dodge or Accomplished Sneak Attacker (your preference)
6th Rogue (Thug): Rogue Ability (Skill Focus Persuasion)
7th Fighter: Cornugon Smash, Shatter Defenses
8th Fighter: Combat Reflexes
9th Fighter: Seize the Moment
10th Fighter: Improved Critical (Rapier)
11th Fighter: Weapon Specialization (Rapier), Weapon Training (Rapier)
12th Rogue(Thug):
13th Rogue (Thug): Rogue Ability (Combat Feat Critical Focus), Wings Aasimar Only Feat
14th Rogue (Thug):
15th Rogue (Thug): Rogue Ability (your pick), Staggering Critical (Rapier)
Beyond I'm not too sure the options since I haven't hit high level playSkills
You will be able to max 3 skills all the time and more later. So Persuarion, Trickery, and another of your choice. At level 12+ You can start using excess Rogue skills to flesh out other skills.
Items
Gloves of Dueling: You need 5 levels of fighter for these but they buff your weapon training
Armor / Shield +X: Always favor +X over abilities
Cloak of Resistance +X
Ring of Protection +X
Amulet of Natural Armor +X
Explanation of Build
The first few levels are rough. You are rushing Rogue to 3rd level so that you can get DEX to damage. However you are no worse than a normal rogue. You should also note that currently power attack is bugged where Finesse weapons only get -1 attack +1 damage. Hopefully this is fixed soon.
At 4th-5th level you pick up Paladin. This allows you to equip shields and is a huge buff to your saving throws (+3 Fort/Will + your CHA to all saves). Also, casters start becoming more prevalent around this time so you want those Will saves up. Don't forget, against evil big bad guys SMITE is extrememly powerful. Sure you aren't getting a big level bonus to damage but you are completely negating their DR.
6th level you hop back to Rogue for Debilitating Injury. I pick to lower their AC because your other abilities (see below) will be drastically reducing their attacks. But you still have flexibility.
7th level is the sweet spot where the build fully comes online. Before you are a tanky rogue with decent damage, now you are a debilitating powerhouse. Cornugon Smash means all of your attacks that hit get a free demoralize check. You are likely to succeed being your race bonus and optimized Persuasion. Enemies hit by you will be demoralized (Intimidate), Flat-Footed (Shatter Defenses), Sickened (Thug Brutal Beating), and AC penalized (Debilitating Injury) for a total of -4 Attack, -2 damage, No Dex to AC, -2 AC(-4 AC for you), -4 saving throws, -4 skill/ability checks. In addition, if your persuasion roll high enough they could outright flee in terror (effectively working like a stun with extra attacks due to Attacks of Opportunity).
8th - 11th are Fighter Levels. These are necessary to pick up your Teamwork Feats in addition to Weapon Training. Having Seize the Moment + High Dex means anytime another team member with this feat gets a crit, you get a free attack.
Who is your teamate? When you get Amiri at lvl 1 immediately tuck away her big sword (it's really a sub-optimal weapon) and use a falchion. Also multi-class her with 2-handed fighter and keep her that for a long time. She will still be slightly underpar of a custom built falchion user but it's not a big deal. She should also then get Seize the Moment. She will only get 2 triggers due to her DEX but she is there to help you. At 10th level both of you will have 15-20 critical threat range and multiple attacks. Expect to trigger this teamwork feat a ton!
Weapon Training is good but way better with Gloves of Dueling (which increase it by +2 attack & damage)
12+ and it's all gravy with extra sneak attack damage. Once you get Staggering Critical opponents hit by you could lose their full-round attack (since they can only take a standard or move action).
*note* Now as an alternative you could go STR based for better Persuasion (Due to Intimidating Prowess adding STR to CHA) and overall 2-Handed damage but would lose out on a lot of AC due to no shield and extra attacks from seize the moment due to low DEX.
1 Monk / 1 Fighter / 18 Knife Master
Dual Wield Daggers/Kukris
Human
8 Str 18 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha (Wis is for monk AC, so change if going pure rogue)
Increase Dex with level ups. Wear bracers instead of armor. Wear +dex and +wis gear for AC bonuses. Finesse Training Daggers for Dex bonus to damage. Knife Master for D8 sneak damage. Fighter level is for 1 additional BAB and Feat.
Skills: Athletics, Mobility, Trickery, Stealth, Lore Nature, Perception
Main Feats: Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting line, Improved Crit, Crit Focus, Crane Style
It is my most consistent melee damage dealer and at level 5 catches up with the AC of a custom min-maxed Tower Shield Specialist. At higher levels pulls ahead with better AC while maintaining excellent damage output.
1x Knife Master
1x Monk
4x Knife Master
1x Fighter
13x Knife Master
Dual Wield Daggers/Kukris
Human
8 Str 18 Dex 12 Con 10 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha (Wis is for monk AC, so change if going pure rogue)
Increase Dex with level ups. Wear bracers instead of armor. Wear +dex and +wis gear for AC bonuses. Finesse Training Daggers for Dex bonus to damage. Knife Master for D8 sneak damage. Fighter level is for 1 additional BAB and Feat.
Skills: Athletics, Mobility, Trickery, Stealth, Lore Nature, Perception
Main Feats: Dodge, Two-Weapon Fighting line, Improved Crit, Crit Focus, Crane Style
It is my most consistent melee damage dealer and at level 5 catches up with the AC of a custom min-maxed Tower Shield Specialist. At higher levels pulls ahead with better AC while maintaining excellent damage output.
1x Knife Master
1x Monk
4x Knife Master
1x Fighter
13x Knife Master
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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"Tanking" is about body blocking and Attacks of Opportunity (AoO) using Enlarge Person at all times (mostly). You have your front line (high AC) set up to make any mob that runs past get hit 3 or 4 times with AoO. Pets and summons are great for filling up space in the front line (summons are expendable, pets (Smilodon) take a little more damage but don't waste spell slots and get armor and feats (in Wrath)).
Furthermore, you can have 1 or 2 party members set up as second line with reach weapons (Glaves), standing behind the front line blockers, to give AoO w/o taking hits.
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reavor
I'm With HER ♀
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Thus far it definitely feels way more fast paced than kingmaker. And in similar manner as BG3, what is with this thing of blowing the load early and introducing all the awesome god-level enemies and mobs early on? Within 10 minutes you get a demon lord and dragon. Whereas in Kingmaker the whole first 10 hours revolved around a bandit lord and his henchmen. at least they got rid of the horrible 1 try to lockpick per level thing from kingmaker.
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Torn between Champion of the Faith Warpriest and Disciple of the Pike Cavalier, ugh. Just not sure if Warpriest needs all the casting feats on top of all the melee feats in order to be solid - if so I'll probably just go with Pike.
Inquisitors were implemented pretty shitty in Kingmaker, right? Did they fix them for this or no?
Inquisitors were implemented pretty shitty in Kingmaker, right? Did they fix them for this or no?
Drajakur
Molten Core Raider
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Does anyone know, or have a link to, the unlock order of the companions? I don't have the patience to play a class that needs some other class that maybe doesn't unlock until 28 hours into the campaign or something (e.g. party full of ranged characters). The advice generally seems to be "main should be a melee that can take hits and DPS" but that is literally like my least favorite character to play.