Rings of Power: Tolkien's Shambling Skinsuit

Furry · Sep 9, 2022

Let’s be fair, this show isn’t a steaming pile of shit. It’s no Wheel of Time. This show is a solid 5/10. If the elves weren’t all retarded and non-elfy this show might even be a 7, as that is the biggest weakness of the show by far. Other than that, the show’s biggest weakness was the “series of random events” feeing things had, because it does little to set things that are happening up. Jumping off the ship is one such example, or the milk coming out of the cow black being treated as just another thing that happens in middle earth instead of them flipping the fuck out.

Sheboon the dwarf queen somehow didn’t bother me either.

jayrebb · Sep 9, 2022

Furry said:
Let’s be fair, this show isn’t a steaming pile of shit. It’s no Wheel of Time. This show is a solid 5/10. If the elves weren’t all retarded and non-elfy this show might even be a 7, as that is the biggest weakness of the show by far. Other than that, the show’s biggest weakness was the “series of random events” feeing things had, because it does little to set things that are happening up. Jumping off the ship is one such example, or the milk coming out of the cow black being treated as just another thing that happens in middle earth instead of them flipping the fuck out.

Sheboon the dwarf queen somehow didn’t bother me either.

Most rage bait reviewers have admitted the kang dwarf sheboon doesn't bother them and some have it as one of the stronger characters.

The pacing of the show is it's biggest weakness along with the depiction of elves. The storytelling is junior varsity.

Jarring.

Animosity · Sep 9, 2022

zzeris said:
At this point, I don’t understand any true fan of Tolkien watching this. Seeing scenes from the books hasn’t happened consistently since the second movie about 20 years ago. Today you’re just watching to see what they fuck up and remake. Considering none of them have the talent of Tolkiens left pinky, it’s never good. This is just nerd virtue signaling. “I’m the best fan! I even watch the garbage! “ Truly pathetic.

Cuz Im not a crusty old fuck like half the people on these forums. This show isnt cannon or based on anything from the books other than a few characters being used. The show looks amazing and am just glad to have something to watch thats in this universe. I love all the movies even with all their flaws. Battle of 5 Armies is pretty terrible though.

Big Phoenix · Sep 9, 2022

Furry said:
Let’s be fair, this show isn’t a steaming pile of shit. It’s no Wheel of Time. This show is a solid 5/10. If the elves weren’t all retarded and non-elfy this show might even be a 7, as that is the biggest weakness of the show by far. Other than that, the show’s biggest weakness was the “series of random events” feeing things had, because it does little to set things that are happening up. Jumping off the ship is one such example, or the milk coming out of the cow black being treated as just another thing that happens in middle earth instead of them flipping the fuck out.

Sheboon the dwarf queen somehow didn’t bother me either.

race swapping detracts from a show every bit as much as shitty acting, low production values and shit story.

zzeris · Sep 9, 2022

lgarthy said:
I am still ambivalent and hopeful. I loved the Fellowship of the Ring. Loved it. I do qualify as a Tolkien nerd. Each successive movie seemed to become more of a chore. Yes, the battle scenes in Return of the King were pretty extraordinary, but, like the movie series, a little too much and a little too long. Then came The Hobbit. This was the simplest of all of Tolkien's works and it was made into a 9 hour (or thereabout) monstrosity.

I certainly didn't feel great as a Tolkien reader being water-tortured by watching The Hobbit.

So, this series gets the same break later Jackson projects did. Yeah, with no text to use as a reference to desecrate. Just characters and archetypes that they may (or may not) get in synchronicity to my internal constructs from the novels. But I'll play for now.

Holy fuck did I have to put up with hours and hours of Trek shit/products before I was given a "First Contact." Even after that, fans were raped with "Nemesis..."

You're more forgiving than me and Tolkien holds a much higher place than Trek for me as well. I understand your desire of at least decent content in a topic area you already enjoy. I just don't think this is decent and it messes up things for no good reason. I hated The Hobbit series and only watched the first in theater. The rest were free in some subscription much later down the road. I don't like to reward garbage in media and these books started the fantasy field of today. They deserve better.

For me, these book writers make amazing worlds that my mind does far greater justice for than anything modern does. I enjoy when the producer and writers of a show or movie show respect to the writer and the fan base which created this free moneymaker for them. This is free money. All you have to do is follow the paint by numbers options given to you. It's so simple, even average people can do it. You just need good CGI and actors, but the story is already built. If you want to make your own story, then go do that instead of milking off of better creative talent.

With that said, most of this is intentionally done to shit on the fanbase and the original writer. I'm not ever going to support that. That's just my opinion but they will continue to shit on you when they see you'll pay for it every time.

Furry · Sep 9, 2022

Big Phoenix said:
race swapping detracts from a show every bit as much as shitty acting, low production values and shit story.

She has like one min of screen time and fine as an actor for the role she was given. And how do we know that the black dwarves wasn’t kangz and kweens in the second age? There’s so much more to hate this show over. Black elf char is way worse, cause he’s essentially Father from raised by wolves with even less personality. Is it the same guy? I can’t tell black people apart.

Oldbased · Sep 9, 2022

I thought the 3rd was a bit better but still has a ways to go for me.
I just don't give a shit about any character still. I find the pacing dull and story dumbed down to jogger levels explaining.

Chris · Sep 9, 2022

The black Dwarf actress was actually really good, very momish, very scottish accent, very rotund.

It would just be visually better if she was ginger with a beard.

Black elf is boring, black kween is bland so far.

Locnar · Sep 9, 2022

The thing I like the most (see , I can find something positive..) about the show is the Orcs. I really like the artistic direction they went with them and even found them mildly "scary".

I'm gonna assume Adar is the orc corruption/contraction of "Annatar"? I always find the bad guys more interesting so I wish they would hurry up with the evil morgoth cult stuff.

Time to do some nerd searches to see who the fuk the old giant magician is supposed to be..

Chukzombi · Sep 9, 2022

Animosity said:
Cuz Im not a crusty old fuck like half the people on these forums. This show isnt cannon or based on anything from the books other than a few characters being used. The show looks amazing and am just glad to have something to watch thats in this universe. I love all the movies even with all their flaws. Battle of 5 Armies is pretty terrible though.

us crusty old fucks made this IP a thing that was enjoyed by the world for 50+ years only to be tossed aside and used in passing to lure in crusty old fucks to watch a TV show because they didnt have faith in creating their own world with its own characters.

lgarthy · Sep 9, 2022

zzeris said:
You're more forgiving than me and Tolkien holds a much higher place than Trek for me as well. I understand your desire of at least decent content in a topic area you already enjoy. I just don't think this is decent and it messes up things for no good reason. I hated The Hobbit series and only watched the first in theater. The rest were free in some subscription much later down the road. I don't like to reward garbage in media and these books started the fantasy field of today. They deserve better.

For me, these book writers make amazing worlds that my mind does far greater justice for than anything modern does. I enjoy when the producer and writers of a show or movie show respect to the writer and the fan base which created this free moneymaker for them. This is free money. All you have to do is follow the paint by numbers options given to you. It's so simple, even average people can do it. You just need good CGI and actors, but the story is already built. If you want to make your own story, then go do that instead of milking off of better creative talent.

With that said, most of this is intentionally done to shit on the fanbase and the original writer. I'm not ever going to support that. That's just my opinion but they will continue to shit on you when they see you'll pay for it every time.

I get it-- and, it is very likely that I will join the hate squad at some time. I am just likely too anesthetized by a generation or two of significantly low standards of entertainment and writing... And I wasn't really comparing Trek to Tolkien as art. Tolkien took 17 years to construct Middle Earth and The Lord of the Rings. It's serious high art. Trek is all over the place... It was a fan-base comparison.

I think you hit the nail right on the head-- I would love to see an extension of this world that is of equivalent depth, nuance and structure. But that is asking a lot. More than 99.99% of TV entertainment for sure.

Again; look at the multiple macerations of Dune.

I repeat-- i am not comparing levels of artistic merit; I am disgusted with just about everything Star Wars after Empire (but again, Star Wars is low-brow).

It is so incredibly rare to find a movie or series version that complements or compares with the text, when the novel/book is complex. LeCarre has been serialized reasonably well in Little Drummer Girl and The Night Manager but still nothing close to his novels. Philip K Dick has been successfully converted more than a few times, but having been a reader of his, I can sincerely state that he is an idea genius but not a great "writer." A read of his novels in the 21st century reveals it.

So yeah, I am a stupid wanna be fanboy for now... I will graciously apologize to the board when/if its sacrilegious stupidity penetrates my bulbous cranium.

zzeris · Sep 9, 2022

lgarthy said:
I get it-- and, it is very likely that I will join the hate squad at some time. I am just likely too anesthetized by a generation or two of significantly low standards of entertainment and writing... And I wasn't really comparing Trek to Tolkien as art. Tolkien took 17 years to construct Middle Earth and The Lord of the Rings. It's serious high art. Trek is all over the place... It was a fan-base comparison.

I think you hit the nail right on the head-- I would love to see an extension of this world that is of equivalent depth, nuance and structure. But that is asking a lot. More than 99.99% of TV entertainment for sure.

Again; look at the multiple macerations of Dune.

I repeat-- i am not comparing levels of artistic merit; I am disgusted with just about everything Star Wars after Empire (but again, Star Wars is low-brow).

It is so incredibly rare to find a movie or series version that complements or compares with the text, when the novel/book is complex. LeCarre has been serialized reasonably well in Little Drummer Girl and The Night Manager but still nothing close to his novels. Philip K Dick has been successfully converted more than a few times, but having been a reader of his, I can sincerely state that he is an idea genius but not a great "writer." A read of his novels in the 21st century reveals it.

So yeah, I am a stupid wanna be fanboy for now... I will graciously apologize to the board when/if its sacrilegious stupidity penetrates my bulbous cranium.

I get ya and good for you. It's good to be willing to bend sometimes and experience new things or new takes on old ones. I just don't like it with certain hallowed franchises. It is hard to compete with the text and I think the Dune series get it ok more than most of them so far (outside of 1984 version which is hilarious though). I don't need perfection even if it might sound like it to a few. It just seems like the effort to 'get it right' is secondary to just making something they think is cool or progressive. Not Tolkien cool, but their cool. And when it doesn't work out, they scream racism immediately which indicates a lack of awareness as well as an unwillingness to change if things aren't going well. They've already used this tactic.

Did they get the dwarf queen because her role is so integral and she's such an amazing actress or for other reasons? So far, it seems other reasons. Since this isn't exactly canon, are they at least telling a great story? It doesn't seem like it so far. I just don't think the modern writer, especially the ones employed in mass media, are good enough for these franchises. And the studios don't think so either or they'd be making original content. So, I'm prepared to see them shit up another franchise I like instead of expecting and hoping for the possible joy of seeing something I love being on screen. I'm too cynical but so far, I'm right on the money. In a society of equity, there is no exceptionalism.

sakkath · Sep 9, 2022

zzeris said:
Did they get the dwarf queen because her role is so integral and she's such an amazing actress or for other reasons? So far, it seems other reasons.

I mean it's obviously other reasons. There's one token black dwarf in a sea of whites, one token black elf in a sea of whites, one token black human in a sea of whites, and two(!) token black harfoots in a sea of whites. Zero asians that I've noticed. 100% obvious tokenism.
Thing is that I'm not interested in identity politics and so it doesn't bother me if they skin colour change characters any more than if they changed their hair colour or changed them from right to left handed. It's of zero impact to the story or character development.

Zindan · Sep 9, 2022

This shows timeline is a mess. It seems like they've cut out around 1600yrs of lore, and will most likely have Tar Miriel be the one to subdue Sauron and bring him back to Numenor, only to have him corrupt Ar Pharazon so that he takes a fleet to Valinor. So lazy.

Bondurant · Sep 9, 2022

zzeris · Sep 9, 2022

sakkath said:
I mean it's obviously other reasons. There's one token black dwarf in a sea of whites, one token black elf in a sea of whites, one token black human in a sea of whites, and two(!) token black harfoots in a sea of whites. Zero asians that I've noticed. 100% obvious tokenism.
Thing is that I'm not interested in identity politics and so it doesn't bother me if they skin colour change characters any more than if they changed their hair colour or changed them from right to left handed. It's of zero impact to the story or character development.

Ok, you’re not interested in the tokenism in ‘a sea of whites’ but they are. If they are putting emphasis on tokens, how much less focus for story? Again, obviously some. If one of your primary focii is ensuring your identity politics, but you can’t be bothered with the original author’s content, does that say something? Obviously.

You act like a focus on identity politics over the creation of a great story….doesn’t affect story and it always does and always will. Focus on story, then great actors and backdrops. Nowhere in that is identity politics. Thanks for helping make my point. You seemed to also notice the glaring tokenism was emphasized over story too. Just a question though. Did the sea of white in the FotR by Jackson cause you to be distracted from the story?

Chukzombi · Sep 9, 2022

zzeris said:
Ok, you’re not interested in the tokenism in ‘a sea of whites’ but they are. If they are putting emphasis on tokens, how much less focus for story? Again, obviously some. If one of your primary focii is ensuring your identity politics, but you can’t be bothered with the original author’s content, does that say something? Obviously.

You act like a focus on identity politics over the creation of a great story….doesn’t affect story and it always does and always will. Focus on story, then great actors and backdrops. Nowhere in that is identity politics. Thanks for helping make my point. You seemed to also notice the glaring tokenism was emphasized over story too. Just a question though. Did the sea of white in the FotR by Jackson cause you to be distracted from the story?

he's also giving people shade for noticing it and being bothered by lack of story in favor of wokeism. "i wouldnt notice all the tokens if it wasnt for you racists."

spronk · Sep 9, 2022

you laugh you lose

numenor was pretty, i have no fucking clue whats going on in the show anymore its basically a video game where i'm just skipping random cut scenes.

zignor 4 · Sep 9, 2022

Zindan said:
This shows timeline is a mess. It seems like they've cut out around 1600yrs of lore, and will most likely have Tar Miriel be the one to subdue Sauron and bring him back to Numenor, only to have him corrupt Ar Pharazon so that he takes a fleet to Valinor. So lazy.

They've cut more than that. I don't know what year of the Second Age the show is supposed to have started in, but it seems like they're compressing more like 3000 years into basically a couple of weeks so far.

For no reason whatsoever I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that Tar-Miriel is putting on a front and she's really one of the Faithful and shit will hit the fan when her father dies and Ar-Pharazon wrests the scepter. I'm probably wrong and it'll go down like you suspect.

Although, dragging Sauron back to Numenor was always going to be a problem for a show covering this period, particularly for non-readers. They'd need to go through the build-up and massive special effects expense of launching the largest, most powerful fleet to ever sail the sea, get it to Middle Earth to meet Sauron's massive, battle-ready army, only to have...the Orcs flake out without a fight and leaving Sauron alone looking like a chump. It works in the book, but that would be a tough sell for a movie / TV show.

sakkath · Sep 9, 2022

Chukzombi said:
he's also giving people shade for noticing it and being bothered by lack of story in favor of wokeism. "i wouldnt notice all the tokens if it wasnt for you racists."

Bit defensive aren't you? I'm not giving anyone shade for noticing it. I obviously noticed it myself. If anything I'm giving the creators of the show shade for their half arsed effort at diversity. Either do it properly, or dont do it, the tokenism is laughable.

What I also said is that the tokenism or diversity in shows don't matter to me since I don't care about people's skin colour. I grew up with a "colourblind" attitude to race which I still carry.

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Rings of Power: Tolkien's Shambling Skinsuit

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