Smartphones

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Tarrant

<Prior Amod>
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Reiterating for Tarrant.
Too many phones to go and find out but almost 3 years ago Nokia switched gears to basic phones because their basic phones generated much better operating profits than its smartphone line-up. That's not the only reason their smart phone market share is down (Brutal is right that Windows does hamper them, but it was a decision they actively made, hence why I said they were fine with it) but it's a huge reason you haven't seen them try to make it re-surge and why their line is now limited. It was a conscious decision on their part which is why I said they were okay with where they are for the moment.

Engaging Tarrant is always a waste of time.
You've had a boner for me ever since myself and 99% of others told you that you were retarded in the health care thread. Get over it, you were wrong then, you're wrong now. It's a trend with you, but it's cool. My only argument with you was they were okay with where they were (which they are since it was their decision to be where they are now...which you clearly weren't aware of, which is fine but then you got all sandy about it.) and you had to blow the shit up retardly like you always do when someone disagrees with you.

Anyway, they year on year is still down, but they cut their losses by more than half the first few years and began posting in the black for the first time in over three years. They are getting stronger slowly.

And all that aside, you'd be surprised just how many feature phones still sell. It blew my mind when I got into the business some years back...still does really.
 

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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I'm not asking you to get me the specifics. I'm just asking you to consider that high volume and high income does not, by themselves, paint a good business picture. If you aren't making any profit of your products, or even selling them at a loss, all the volume and income in the world won't help you. A cursory look at their wikipedia entry says they are down in all major categories.

BTW, I refuse to believe dumb phones have a better margin than smart phones. That's completely backwards.
 

Tarrant

<Prior Amod>
16,038
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I don't necessarily disagree with your post, my only point was this was the direction they choose to go and they were fine with it. That was the whole thing that started this retarded escalation.

And no, the margins are most likely not as good however when they sell millions more of them than they were smart phones, it's understandable why they shifted focus that direction for the time being.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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Tarrant, you are really and truly a retard.

Just read the wikipedia page about the last 4 years at Nokia.

2010 to present[edit]
In 2010 pressure on Nokia increased dramatically as Android and iOS continued to make gains.[109] Other Symbian makers including Samsung and Sony Ericsson chose to make Android-powered smartphones instead of Symbian,[110] and by mid-2010 Nokia was its only OEM outside of Japan. Nokia developed Symbian^3 to replace S60, but it never became popular.[111] By Q4 2010, Symbian's market share dipped to 32%, surpassed by Android at 30%.[112] Despite losing share, the smartphone unit was profitable and smartphone unit sales increased every quarter during 2010.[113] An estimated 4 million units were sold in Q4 2010.[114]
2011: Alliance with Microsoft, Windows Phone, and launch of Lumia[edit]


The Nokia Lumia 720
On 11 February 2011, Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop, a former head of Microsoft business division, unveiled a new strategic alliance with Microsoft, and announced it would shift its efforts to Windows Phone from Linux-based MeeGo and Symbian.[115] except for non-smartphones. Nokia invested in the Series 40 platform and released a single MeeGo product in 2011, the Nokia N9.[116]
As part of the restructuring plan, Nokia planned to reduce research and development, instead customising and enhancing the software line for Windows Phone 7.[117] Nokia's "applications and content store" (Ovi) became integrated into the Windows Phone Store, and Nokia Maps became the heart of Microsoft's Bing and AdCenter. Microsoft provided developer tools to Nokia to replace the Qt framework, which was not supported by Windows Phone 7 devices.[118]
After this announcement, Nokia's share price fell about 14%, its biggest drop since July 2009.[119] Nokia's smartphone sales, which had previously increased, collapsed.[120] From the beginning of 2011 until 2013, Nokia fell from #1 to #10 in smartphone sales.[121]
Amid falling sales, Nokia posted a loss of 368 million euros for Q2 2011, while in Q2 2010 realized a profit of 227 million euros. On September 2011, Nokia has announced it will end another 3,500 jobs worldwide, including the closure of its Cluj factory in Romania.[122]
As Nokia was the largest mobile phone and smartphone manufacturer worldwide at the time,[123] it was suggested the alliance would help Windows Phone.[118] Nokia was overtaken by Apple as the world's biggest smartphone maker by volume in June 2011.[124] [125] In August 2011 Chris Weber, head of Nokia's subsidiary in the U.S., stated "The reality is if we are not successful with Windows Phone, it doesn't matter what we do (elsewhere)." He further added "North America is a priority for Nokia (...) because it is a key market for Microsoft.".[126]
Nokia reported "well above 1 million" sales for its Lumia line up to 26 January 2012,[127][128] 2 million sales for the first quarter of 2012,[129] and 4 million for the second quarter of 2012.[130] In this quarter, Nokia only sold 600,000 smartphones (Symbian and Windows Phone 7) in North America.[131] For comparison, Nokia sold more than 30 million Symbian devices world-wide in Q4 2010[132] and the Nokia N8 alone sold almost 4 million in its first quarter. In Q2 2012, 26 million iPhones and 105 million Android phones shipped, compared to only 6.8 million devices with Symbian and 5.4 million with Windows Phone.[133]
While announcing an alliance with Groupon, Elop declared "The competition... is not with other device manufacturers, it's with Google."[134]
In June 2012, Nokia chairman Risto Siilasmaa told journalists that Nokia had a back-up plan in the event that Windows Phone failed.[135][136]
2012: Rising financial difficulties[edit]


Market share of Symbian, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7 among US smartphone owners from Q1 2011 to Q2 2012 according to Nielsen Company.
On 8 February 2012, Nokia Corp. announced 4,000 layoffs at smartphone manufacturing plants in Europe by the end of 2012 to move assembly closer to component suppliers in Asia.[137]
On 14 June 2012, Nokia announced 10,000 layoffs globally by the end of 2013[138] and shut production and research sites in Finland, Germany and Canada in line with continuing losses and the stock price falling to its lowest point since 1996.[139]
In total, Nokia laid off 24,500 employees by the end of 2013.[140]
On 18 June 2012, Moody's downgraded Nokia's bond rating to junk.[141] Nokia CEO admitted that the company's inability to foresee rapid changes in mobile phone industry was one of the major reasons for the problems.[142]
On 4 May 2012, a group of Nokia investors filed a class action against the company as a result of disappointing sales.[143] On 22 August 2012, it was reported that a group of Finnish Nokia investors were considering gathering signatures for the removal of Elop as CEO.[144]
In December 2012, Nokia announced that it would be selling its headquarters Nokia House for ?170 million, and leasing it back in the long-term. This decision was taken to slash costs as the company was during a financial crisis of falling revenues.[145]
2013: New products, recovering market share, lack of profits[edit]
In January 2013, Nokia reported 6.6 million smartphone sales for Q4 2012 consisting of 2.2 million Symbian and 4.4 million sales of Lumia devices (Windows Phone 7 and 8).[146] In North America, only 700,000 mobile phones have been sold including smartphones.
In May 2013 Nokia released the Asha platform for its low-end borderline smartphone devices. The Verge commented that this may be a recognition on the part of Nokia that they are unable to move Windows Phone into the bottom end of smartphone devices fast enough and may be "hedging their commitment" to the Windows Phone platform.[147]
In the same month, Nokia announced its partnership with the world's largest cellular operator China Mobile to offer Nokia's new Windows-based phone, the Lumia 920, as Lumia 920T, an exclusive Chinese variant. The partnership was a bid by Nokia to connect with China Mobile's 700 million-person customer base.[148]
Following the second quarter of 2013, Nokia made an operating loss of ?115m (?98.8m), with revenues falling 24% to ?5.7bn, despite sales figures for the Lumia exceeding those of BlackBerry's handsets during the same period. Over the nine-quarters prior to the second quarter of 2013, Nokia sustained ?4.1 billion worth of operating losses. The company experienced particular problems in both China and the U.S.; in the former, Nokia's handset revenues are the lowest since 2002, while in the U.S., Francisco Jeronimo, analyst for research company IDC, stated: "Nokia continues to show no signs of recovery in the US market. High investments, high expectations, low results."[149]
In July 2013, Nokia announced that Lumia sales were 7.4 million for the second quarter of the year ? a record high.[150]
Acquisition of mobile phone business by Microsoft[edit]
On 2 September 2013, Microsoft announced that it would acquire Nokia's mobile device business in a deal worth ?3.79bn, along with another ?1.65bn to license Nokia's portfolio of patents for 10 years; a deal totaling at over ?5.4bn. Steve Ballmer considered the purchase to be a "bold step into the future" for both companies, primarily as a result of its recent collaboration. It was also part of Ballmer's long-term vision of transforming Microsoft into a 'devices and services' company. Pending regulatory approval, the acquisition was originally expected to close in early 2014.
Despite a recovery of Nokia's smartphone shares and rising Lumia sales, it wasn't enough to stop Nokia from making losses. The company's other divisions such as NSN were actually making profits but it was the devices and services section that failed to. Nokia felt it would be a wise financial decision to sell the loss-making division and focus on their others.
While Microsoft licensed the Nokia brand under a 10-year agreement, Nokia agreed not to use its name on smartphones and will be subject to a non-compete clause preventing it from producing any mobile devices under the Nokia name through 31 December 2015. Microsoft acquired the Asha and Lumia brands as part of the deal, and are also licensing the Nokia brand from Nokia.[151]
In an interview with Helsingin Sanomat, former Nokia executive Anssi Vanjoki commented that the Microsoft deal was "inevitable" due to the "failed strategy" of Stephen Elop.[152]
In March 2014, it was announced that the acquisition of Nokia's mobile phone business would not be completed by the end of March as expected, but instead was delayed until April of that year due to problems with regulators in Asia.[153]
On Friday, 25 April 2014, the postponed acquisition was ultimately completed.[154]
2014: Post-acquisition[edit]
As part of the deal, a number of Nokia executives joined Microsoft. Stephen Elop became the head of Microsoft's devices team (which include products such as Xbox and Surface); Risto Siilasmaa replaced Elop as interim CEO, before the appointment of Rajeev Suri.[8][9][155][156]


Steven Elop unveiling the Nokia X in February 2014
Following the sale, Nokia will focus on three core business units; its Here mapping service (which Microsoft will license for four years under the deal), its infrastructure division Nokia Solutions and Networks (NSN), and on developing and licensing its "advanced technologies".
In October 2013, a month after the acquisition announcement, Nokia predicted a more profitable future for its NSN networks equipment business, which became the company's main business.[157]
Nokia announced several products after the announcement of the sale, such as the Nokia Lumia 2520 tablet, and the Nokia X family, at MWC 2014.

It's the picture of a healthy company. They laid of 24,000 employees, they are losing money, they fired their CEO and then sold the company to Microsoft, their stock price is in the toilet, but hey, they are going to focus on a product that won't exist in 5 years and things are great!

Struggling-with-disruptive-change-Nokia-Stock-Price.png
6a00e0097e337c8833019b010be9ed970d-pi


Nokia is fucked and you are the only person on the planet that doesn't know it.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Nice outdated charts. How come you didn't link current ones? How come no links where Nokia is actually in the black now? Why no links to articles talking about patent contracts and the fact Nokia gets money from phones that Samsung and Apple sell among others?
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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That's not making money on phones. They don't make phones anymore since microsoft took the cash-hemorrhaging devices and services division. Nokia will go on as a company, but they don't make phones anymore. The patent licensing and maps shit is not what we're talking about.

"Look at all the money we're making selling off the wreckage of a formerly great company. Great success!!"
 

Abefroman

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That's not making money on phones. They don't make phones anymore since microsoft took the cash-hemorrhaging devices and services division. Nokia will go on as a company, but they don't make phones anymore. The patent licensing and maps shit is not what we're talking about.
I highly doubt they are fucked as a company as you put it. They got behind the curve and are correcting themselves. Lat I heard they had around 15% profit margin on the dumb phones. That isn't bad and what people always try to compare it to is the $250 cost to make something like a Samsung or an Iphone. That number doesn't include the insane marketing budget and the fact that repairs are costly and have a higher break rate then dumb phones. The problem isn't the Nokia phones, it's the marriage to Microsoft. I still wouldn't bet against it because the tech market is fickel and consumers tastes and whats hot change all the time.

Sorry to interupt the dick waving, please continue.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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Who gives a shit about Nokia. This all started with this completely wrong statement.

Except it runs better than both and app selection means dick when you realize you only use 5 after a week no matter what platform you're on.
It matters when the 5 apps you use are all inferior versions or poor substitutes for what exists on the iPhone/Android ecosystem.
 

BrutulTM

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Everyone agrees that windows phone is great and that nobody wants to use it for whatever reason.
 

Siliconemelons

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Everyone agrees that windows phone is great and that nobody wants to use it for whatever reason.
Apps for whatever reason are seriously a big factor for many consumer sheeple

WebOS and Windows Phone have both been reviewed and seen as good OS's with better featuresets than ios/droid etc but always lacking apps- the same with BB10.. consumers really do not care about functionality in the stock OS- they just care about if they have apps to do what they want - or in android apps to make the os do what they want.

stock vs stock with no apps/add ons etc- almost every mobile OS is head over heels better than iOS and Android. HP/Palm/WebOS said that the consumers will eventually "see the light" and that didn't happen before Leo but WebOS on the axe- BlackBerry is focusing on returning to the green with a focus on enterprise- and then will shift back to consumer market- hoping by then that consumers realize there are more than apps to care about (i.e. security etc)... I do not know what microsofts take on things is... How long is this "app fad" going to last? WebOS people and now BB people all say "a few years is meaningless in marketshare for the big picture" but that's BS in the tech world IMO- so MS either needs to do what BB is doing and destroy/buy them and dominate the enterprise market then turn back to consumer, or as I have said- throw money at it for adoption like the xbox classic.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
Apps for whatever reason are seriously a big factor for many consumer sheeple
What kind of ignorant shit is this where wanting programs for the phone makes you a sheeple. You must have been a huge fan of Macs in the 90's when the OS destroyed Windows but you couldn't find any programs for them.
 

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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Phones must be getting powerful enough by now to allow for virtual machines of other operating system, right?
 

Siliconemelons

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What kind of ignorant shit is this where wanting programs for the phone makes you a sheeple. You must have been a huge fan of Macs in the 90's when the OS destroyed Windows but you couldn't find any programs for them.
I don't want to download 5 apps to take care of my office type docs, I don't want to download an app just to see/access/change the file structure of my device, I don't want to download an app to manage my notifications, I don't want to download an app to change how my email works, I don't want to download an app that manages and merges my contacts from various sources.

Most apps that are just "apps" of the mobile page are also useless- the browser should be able to handle everything on that end.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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The problem isn't the Nokia phones, it's the marriage to Microsoft.
I think that this is true, which is why making some Android phones would probably be a great idea for them but they waited way too long to concede defeat on the operating system front and then got in bed with another failed platform (Windows Phone).
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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16
I don't want to download 5 apps to take care of my office type docs, I don't want to download an app just to see/access/change the file structure of my device, I don't want to download an app to manage my notifications, I don't want to download an app to change how my email works, I don't want to download an app that manages and merges my contacts from various sources.

Most apps that are just "apps" of the mobile page are also useless- the browser should be able to handle everything on that end.
Are you suggesting that Windows Phone OS offers all the customization you want out of the box? Either your bar is really low or you are full of shit. As far as the browser handling everything, the web still has plenty of flash on it, how is watching youtube on a windows phone these days?
 

Abefroman

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Everyone agrees that windows phone is great and that nobody wants to use it for whatever reason.
I can only speak for myself. The reason I don't have a windows phone is because of marketing. I simply haven't used one because I am familiar with android and that's what I saw advertised the most when I was looking to purchase one. The biggest problem for me is there is no way that I know of to actually try the Windows mobile OS without purchasing the phone. It's not like I can just change the OS on my S4 that I'm aware of. I would like to try it but I'm not willing to bet 600 bucks that I would like it. I gotta think I'm not the only one that feels this way.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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Most phones have a 30 day return policy if you really want to try it.