Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

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Palum

what Suineg set it to
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There is an EnB server emulator that I haven't tried yet. Maybe I will.
I tried it very briefly a while back. The game isn'tthatgood on its own unfortunately. Like so many of the gen 1 MMOs it was a combination of community, 'new' gameplay, the idea of permanency and future prospects... all that went away when it shut down.
 

Variise

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Says the guy trying to mislead everyone in this thread ...

The guy that doesn't know basic business investment practices or consumer protection laws.
With what evidence? Keep making shit up. That's all you have done in this entire thread from day 1.

You and that other idiot are the reasons this thread keeps going in circles. No amount of information, knowledge, evidence has any impact on what you say. You literally live in a fucking bubble of your own imagination. We can't have facts tax your emotional state now can we. The thread might implode.

At this point I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
 

Variise

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I have an Aurora, and I could not find the Crusader stuff. I found the elevator, and accessed the keypad on it, but there did not seem to be anything to do from there.
The Aurora is a multi-purpose starter ship. A noob ship if you will. If you went into Arena Commander as a noob you would likely face space superiority fighters like the Hornet, M50 and Gladius. As long as you don't mind dying it's ok but I would suggest just getting into the game at large instead and learn your ship that way. Unfortunately the Tutorial is broken right now and pending a revamp so you can't use that.

The Aurora, with some modifications, can be a deadly ship but you will have to learn how to fly first. The game is physics based but how ships behave are still being tweaked and just got changed again. You simply need time to learn. There are videos out there for that.

Are you playing with the latest build of the game? 2.4 went live June 11th and I'm pretty sure the standard start location is Port Olisar, not your Hangar.


Here are a couple of videos that might help with some of the features:

2.4 Details

Performance Tweaks

Honestly there are too many videos. BoredGamer does a decent job covering what you need to know. Check out his other videos. He covers all or nearly all the features in 2.4

I and tons of others have been hounding CIG to do their own training videos but for whatever reason they have decided to let the community handle the training of new players which I don't agree with. I think they want to do an in-game training thing but it's completely broken right now with all the changes recently and they basically put it aside until later when not so many core changes are happening that break it.

EDIT:I would also read this. It's the official 2.4 post. At least read the first few paragraphs. It's important.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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With what evidence? Keep making shit up. That's all you have done in this entire thread from day 1.

You and that other idiot are the reasons this thread keeps going in circles. No amount of information, knowledge, evidence has any impact on what you say. You literally live in a fucking bubble of your own imagination. We can't have facts tax your emotional state now can we. The thread might implode.

At this point I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
You are the emotional one, I am the factual one. You got it wrong again.

I have NOTHING against this game or company. I am merely discussing the reality of how funding works and how that changes things. In doing that I have had to defend RSI before because people stupidly think that they "invested" in it and now have a say in what gets done.

You do not understand how business financing works and what expectations come with that. You are too emotional to sit there, read something, and then go out and learn about it. They are not the first company to raise money via crowdfunding and have a long product cycle so you can see exactly how these things play out and what legal ramifications are involved. They are the biggest though and the most nebulous being a software company that has changed the scale and scope of their game dramatically.

You are foaming at the mouth and can't take any criticism, you actually feel like I should die merely because I know more than you about this subject and have exposed your ignorance.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
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He's spent over 7k for his dream -- unbiased objective observers of SCO and its progress made so far do not spend 7k. I don't mean it as an insult, really -- people spend thousands of dollars on things that don't pan out... but Variise represents an ultra-niche demographic. Unless he makes like 400k a year and doesn't give a shit. Could be that.
 

a_skeleton_03

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What he doesn't get is that I am not even talking about the company itself but the concepts behind what is going on with investments etc ...
 

Variise

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You're still trolling. You haven't said one fucking thing to back up your fact free assertions in this entire thread. You are one of those people that cheery pick an argument for the sake of arguing and try to cut others down by bringing them down to your level where you beat them with experience.

I never advocated your death but please continue your non-stop vomit you think is knowledge. Everyone is dumber for having read anything you have contributed up to this point.
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
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You and that other idiot are the reasons this thread keeps going in circles. No amount of information, knowledge, evidence has any impact on what you say. You literally live in a fucking bubble of your own imagination. We can't have facts tax your emotional state now can we. The thread might implode.
The complete lack of self awareness in these few lines is fucking amazing.
 

a_skeleton_03

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You're still trolling. You haven't said one fucking thing to back up your fact free assertions in this entire thread. You are one of those people that cheery pick an argument for the sake of arguing and try to cut others down by bringing them down to your level where you beat them with experience.

I never advocated your death but please continue your non-stop vomit you think is knowledge. Everyone is dumber for having read anything you have contributed up to this point.
You are a buffoon. You deserve this game.
 

Variise

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He's spent over 7k for his dream -- unbiased objective observers of SCO and its progress made so far do not spend 7k. I don't mean it as an insult, really -- people spend thousands of dollars on things that don't pan out... but Variise represents an ultra-niche demographic. Unless he makes like 400k a year and doesn't give a shit. Could be that.
Sure I'm biased. Everyone is biased and has opinions. If you are looking for an unbiased source forget it. That doesn't exist in news or gaming news. Period.

I have tried pretty hard to ensure that when I say something that is my opinion it's obvious that it's just an opinion. But it's an informed opinion. I have also tried as best I could to provide actual knowledge on the subject and not made up knowledge or half truths. That is what separates me from the tall poppy cutters like a_skeleton_03.

If anything I have been pretty critical of CIG's time frames that they have officially released. I was the one that pegged their final release as Q1 2017 at the earliest with Q4 2017 being more realistic... in 2015. If I'm somehow a raging fanboy I have managed to fail virtually every test in that department. The one time I actually made a statement mirroring CIG I ended up being wrong. One fucking time in this entire thread and I was the one who pointed it out a couple of pages back.

Also I was 10k in at one point and have sold my ships long since then. I'm still a couple of Gs in but not 7k. lol In fact I made a fair amount of money selling those ships. I didn't break even but I'm happy where I'm at.

As for the core of these peoples argument you shouldn't give it a red cent in value. Let me explain.

What a_skeleton_03 neglects to mention, shocking I know, is the fact that CIG made it public on their website, front page letter to the community, that they have changed directions for the game and asked people to support it if they wished. They did this years ago. A small number of backers were upset with the change and have since exited SC via refunds. I explained this before in even more detail even linking to the letter. They have made numerous statements since then at conventions, weekly videos etc. It's been years. People have had plenty of opportunity to understand the game's direction and exit. People like a_skeleton_03 knows all this. They just don't give a shit. When facts get in the way of their tall poppy cutting syndrome they have a way of just dismissing facts out of hand as invalid. As if some 300,000 people who continued to feed the game money after that change or the nearly 700,000 since were somehow all had blinders on, all were duped and all were going off on the original design direction of the game from 2012 that you have to go out of your way to even find.

An entirely different direction was taken and this is where the refund debate, funding and legal argument comes in championed by people like Derek Smart and the SA forum kiddies all circle jerking over a daisy cutter waiting for it to go off. Spent a few hours following them and I want that time of my life back. This is what I mean when people like this use half truths. It's the worst type of lie because there's enough truth to it to muddy the waters and make people think your opinion is a fact. CIG does make mistakes and some really fucking stupid ones but I virtually never see that brought up as an issue in and of itself. It's always tacked on as if that proves some bullshit argument as opposed to trying to address specific issues. The most current one however is not a valid argument not just for CIG but for the industry in general. It's not fact based. Having said that if the industry doesn't police itself it opens the door for the government to do it for them. I already explained how dumb that can be and how it will just further ruin gaming but it is a trade off. You hold companies to account, they stop taking any chances and we spend the next decade playing shit games that make everyone quit buying them and a several dozen billion dollar industry implodes where everyone points at each other to try and pass blame.
 

Variise

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The complete lack of self awareness in these few lines is fucking amazing.
Self awareness?

You and the rest never formed a coherent argument because you don't know anything about the game or the industry. Shouldn't you be suckling on DS' twitter or browsing the SA forums for ammo?
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Also I was 10k in at one point and have sold my ships long since then. I'm still a couple of Gs in but not 7k. lol In fact I made a fair amount of money selling those ships. I didn't break even but I'm happy where I'm at.
Explains so much. Knew you were a cult member.
 

Axamander

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There is no straw man. You don't even understand what that means.

I am not discussing whether the game will ship or whether this is a scam. I am saying that where a company, any company, gets their money from matters a ton. Both for the company and the consumer. You can deny that all you want but this is reality when it comes to business.

So you have a public company and a private company. They have a product they want to make. Okay are you following so far? They start the process of making it and things aren't going well. Now in a private company the board will get involved or whomever their leadership is. They will demand changes and set deadlines. Now a public company has the shareholders that put the pressure on.

Now here is the issue, crowdfunding is a new concept that kind of meets both criteria without any of the legal benefits involved in either. People are confused on what their rights are. They have rights to say a product isn't being delivered just like any other product from any other company, there is a contract involved. Now they think their rights extend further but that is a grey area.

Do you understand all of this? These are facts, reality, and something you cannot question. The process and legalities are solid.

What you are trying to do is distract by claiming that if we discuss anything it is only because we are haters. You should be having these same discussions though as a consumer whether you like the game or not.

Okay I know you don't agree with that so let us switch to the promised product and its delivery. If you kick started a physical product that promised time travel and you paid for it you would have the right to complain if you never leave your current time. Your recourse would be to ask for a refund, it doesn't matter how easy or hard time travel is. They promised and they did not deliver. Due to the nature of kick starter they would not be the ones to ensure that you get your money. It would be the company wanting to keep their good name out of the mud. They don't have to refund you but if they don't there might be a fraud investigation, there might not.

RSI has transcended all of this to a level never seen before and people are starting to look at it that aren't invested at all. People are watching to see the precedent it will set for crowd funding in the future. It will make an impact. Let's pretend they announce tomorrow that they just ran out of money and are shutting down. What will happen? What does that mean for future products and consumer safety?

We aren't straw manning, we are actually discussing the reality of what this all means. You just can't understand it so assume it's some straw man about SCO being vapor ware or whatever. You couldn't be more wrong.
All hail our corporate overlords for without them we could never produce a marketable prototype.

As an engineer that has had to deal with the paradigm you talk about its not all the roses you claim it to be. This is doubly so in high tech fields where CFO types often don't have the technical knowledge to make an informed decision. You fearmongering about the ambiguity with this new funding paradigm reads like typical conservative ideology. It reminds me of my favorite Thomas Paine quote:

Thomas Paine_sl said:
A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
And of course you can apply nothing to CSI directly.

Let's say the company folds tomorrow. Then thousands upong thousands of individuals are out $30-$50,000 and the employees of CSI get canned. Given the dearth of programmers in general I don't imagine they are going to be unemployed for too long. Compare and contrast with a large venture capital firm taking a $100m hit and having to recover and the ancillary, cascading effects as they are sold off part and parcel.

And you don't even try to discuss how decisions are made or the actual financial prognosis of the CSI as it is now. How they process things when 'things go wrong.' Youre just presenting what you see as the worst possible outcome and waving your hands; that isn't factual at all, at best its theory and I wouldn't even give it that much credit. They don't call economics the dismal science for nothing.
 

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
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Self awareness?

You and the rest never formed a coherent argument because you don't know anything about the game or the industry. Shouldn't you be suckling on DS' twitter or browsing the SA forums for ammo?
You are a fanboi with a capitol F. The fact that you can even seriously make the above post amuses me. The only thing you know about this game is what Roberts lets run from his ass which you happily regurgitate for anyone and everyone. I won't even seriously address your "industry" accusation because that is demonstrably false after having subjected my poor psyche to your PR rush over the years in this thread.
 

a_skeleton_03

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All of that is great. It doesn't change that the company was built a certain way and even after they pivot it doesn't mean they get to wash their hands of the reality of how they got where they are with nothing more than a letter and an offer to refund. The company still raised its capital a certain way and they are beholden to those people.

They are beholden to you specifically actually.

I am not discussing the actions of the company, I am speaking about the legal framework of it. It isn't a half truth, it is reality. I am working on a startup currently and as a result I am knee deep in this. There are realities in business whether it is a game company or a winery or even the mafia. They have a structure and decisions are made based on who writes the checks.

You brought up what DA:I had issues with like it mattered. You said that if they were independent and failed to deliver that there would be no legal recourse and you would be correct. Why is that though? It is because you didn't fund them. Their venture capital firm would have a shit fit though. That is who they would answer to. They weren't independent though and they had a production company to answer to. That company pushed them hard and I bet people were fired and threats that development would shut down and all kinds of nastiness. Now you have RSI here, they are independent and as a result don't have a production company to answer to. Instead they have you to answer to. You are dictating their development cycle. You have skin in the game and they have to respect that even if there isn't a legal requirement.

Apple has 61M shares and you can buy them for $95 each. You now have as much voting power as 1 out of 61M people in the company. If you bought over 30M shares you would be able to control the company. That is a public company. My company is a C corp and I have 20,000 shares split between myself and my cofounder. I have one more share than him and so I maintain control of the company.

Now Kickstarter is different. The company is still private and you don't get to make the call on what they do and don't do. You do get to question every decision they make though. We all do. They have to start toeing the line pretty hard and ship something or people are going to start suing.
 

Axamander

N00b
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All of that is great. It doesn't change that the company was built a certain way and even after they pivot it doesn't mean they get to wash their hands of the reality of how they got where they are with nothing more than a letter and an offer to refund. The company still raised its capital a certain way and they are beholden to those people.

They are beholden to you specifically actually.

I am not discussing the actions of the company, I am speaking about the legal framework of it. It isn't a half truth, it is reality. I am working on a startup currently and as a result I am knee deep in this. There are realities in business whether it is a game company or a winery or even the mafia. They have a structure and decisions are made based on who writes the checks.

You brought up what DA:I had issues with like it mattered. You said that if they were independent and failed to deliver that there would be no legal recourse and you would be correct. Why is that though? It is because you didn't fund them. Their venture capital firm would have a shit fit though. That is who they would answer to. They weren't independent though and they had a production company to answer to. That company pushed them hard and I bet people were fired and threats that development would shut down and all kinds of nastiness. Now you have RSI here, they are independent and as a result don't have a production company to answer to. Instead they have you to answer to. You are dictating their development cycle. You have skin in the game and they have to respect that even if there isn't a legal requirement.

Apple has 61M shares and you can buy them for $95 each. You now have as much voting power as 1 out of 61M people in the company. If you bought over 30M shares you would be able to control the company. That is a public company. My company is a C corp and I have 20,000 shares split between myself and my cofounder. I have one more share than him and so I maintain control of the company.

Now Kickstarter is different. The company is still private and you don't get to make the call on what they do and don't do. You do get to question every decision they make though. We all do. They have to start toeing the line pretty hard and ship something or people are going to start suing.
The rub is that when you buy in as a VC firm you are expecting a percentage. CSI didn't sell stock. They sold you the game early for all intents and purposes. If they don't deliver a game I don't see why they are not subject to fraud laws.

Ultimately you don't need stockholders or a board of directors for financial responsibility nor do they guarantee it. 2006-2008 made that extremely clear.