Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

Quaid said:

So no word yet on an official release date, then? No info on beta?

Ill be back in a few months for an update.


















Keep watching the skiis!

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Denaut said:

So your defense of me mocking them is that they spent the first critical year of pre-production pointlessly making art assets and not actually working out their fundamental gameplay? Do you realize how stupid you sound?

You are a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You know so little about game development you don't even realize what you are saying makes their decision-making look even worse than I implied.

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They spent a year making a pitch mostly in their free time. The largest expense was Chris ending up buying a CryEngine license for 1 million IIRC.

For someone who claims to work, or has worked, in the industry you seem to know next to nothing about this process that happens all the time. I'm guessing you are in the cubicles. That explains a lot actually.

a_skeleton_03 said:

How many times are we going to hear this about every single aspect of this project is the issue?

How many times are you going to fundamentally reshape every aspect of this before you stop and just put something permanent in stone?

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First. I was wrong. They aren't re-doing the flight model. They are re-doing the numbers fed into the flight model. Big difference. This was clarified in today's RTV. It's all just changes in a spreadsheet so it's not a huge change on CIG's side but it does change gameplay on the client side.

Second this is your first experience with game development so you simply don't realize that everything is constantly changing until the game goes into Beta and even in Beta things like the UI, class balance etc. all change right up to and past release for any game ever made. What doesn't or rather shouldn't change in Beta is features as those should be locked down.

In Alpha however everything is subject to change all the time.

You are tilting at windmills.

Skanda said:

Mr. Let Me Regurgitate CIG's Marketing Speak Like I Know What I Am Talking About

VS

People Who Really Do Know What They Are Talking About

Round 475


FIGHT​

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Still yet to see this amazing fountain of knowledge. I have yet to be proven wrong by one of you on any facts surrounding the game, game industry in general etc. since Day 1.

Lets not inject facts into another troll attempt though am I right?

The only thing you've ever proven with your posts is how absolutely retarded you are. You don't have the first clue how actual video game development works. You merely take the shit show that Chris Roberts has cobbled together mixed with his own press releases and try to extrapolate that as the norm across the industry. You are a complete fool.

Skanda said:

The only thing you've ever proven with your posts is how absolutely retarded you are. You don't have the first clue how actual video game development works. You merely take the shit show that Chris Roberts has cobbled together mixed with his own press releases and try to extrapolate that as the norm across the industry. You are a complete fool.

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That escalated quickly from the few direct statements I have ever made regarding industry practices to taking everything released at face value.

So in your mind pitching games is not a thing? If it is it only ever happens on paper? I honestly don't know what your stance is because you can't even articulate a coherent argument other than throwing a tantrum.

How you link my posting of actual content and development they have shown with me stating that this is how studios do it everywhere I don't know since I have never made such statements ever.

If you actually knew anything, at all, about any of this you would have shown that by now by at least attempting to prove me wrong on something. Instead all you have done is lied about things I said.

You will continue to do exactly what you have done up to this point which is blow smoke because you can't be seen as being wrong about anything ever. At least that's the sense I'm getting from you.

a_skeleton_03 said:

This is not my first experience with an inside look at game development in the slightest. You don't know me.

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Were you asleep or just didn't care? Just an honest question. I mean personally I block out information I don't care about so I tend not to recall that information very well or at all.

The only thing I am in this thread to do is mock you for the bald faced shill you are and call you out for trying to lord over other people with your supposed expertise in game development even while you have real professionals telling you that you are completely wrong. You've come onto a forum that has literally now been arguing for decades about game design and many of us know or have contact with people in the industry and you try to pretend that you know better than all of us how games should be made. You are a sham.

This might beat the ESO thread shilling by Rescorla and Blackwulf. Whatever this game will be, the thread will be glorious.

Variise.. you post a lot in this thread. So much so that I don't read your posts anymore. Don't have the time or inclination since you come off like a shill. Not saying you are, it just gets to be a little bit much.

I haven't invested in this game, want it to succeed though. Loved CR's earlier games and the genre, so I come here for progress updates and hope that the time wasted finding them is minimal.

Skanda said:

The only thing I am in this thread to do is mock you for the bald faced shill you are and call you out for trying to lord over other people with your supposed expertise in game development even while you have real professionals telling you that you are completely wrong. You've come onto a forum that has literally now been arguing for decades about game design and many of us know or have contact with people in the industry and you try to pretend that you know better than all of us how games should be made. You are a sham.

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I have repeatedly said I'm not an expert, not in the game industry (never was) and the closest I have actually been to game developers is PR events like 10+ years ago when I wrote for a review site in my spare time.

I know a very tiny sum of knowledge when it comes to game development from looking up claims by CIG and their detractors as well as claims in articles about EA and others.

The reason it seems like I'm lording over you and others is because you are making ridiculous statements I know to be false forcing me to call you out for it even with that small bit of knowledge I have. On a scale of 1-10 I'm a 1. The problem is you and others aren't even a 0. A 0 would be someone who had no knowledge on the subject and if someone said something to them would look it up and either find the information provided is incomplete, wrong or correct and slowly move themselves up on the knowledge scale. You and others who claim to know so much had countless chances to expand your knowledge and attempt to prove me wrong. You purposefully refuse to want to learn anything on the subject and even throw it in my face with glee as if it was a virtue.

When it comes to this topic you are a -1.

If you stopped making false statements that would actually be a net positive in a discussion.

Grim1 said:

Variise.. you post a lot in this thread. So much so that I don't read your posts anymore. Don't have the time or inclination since you come off like a shill. Not saying you are, it just gets to be a little bit much.

I haven't invested in this game, want it to succeed though. Loved CR's earlier games and the genre, so I come here for progress updates and hope that the time wasted finding them is minimal.

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Are we talking about the same thread? I have posted every significant update there was since the second half of this year. All those posts with links actually lead to content/feature updates you can visually verify since they stopped talking about them and started showing them off. I wouldn't be posting them otherwise. I still don't post stuff where they just blab cause who wants to listen to that shit. I don't.

When I only post short rebuttals I'm trolling and don't add content to the discussion.
When I post long detailed explanation on a specific aspect of the game even when I leave opinion out of it since I know what I'm talking about, which anyone can verify via Google, I'm parroting.
When I only post progress updates with actual visually verifiable content instead of endless banter that even I got bored of last year of I'm spamming the board.
When I post progress updates I sometimes spend up to an hour breaking down in my own spare time so thankless fucks can lazily click on the links while spewing bullshit at me I'm shilling and posting too much.
When I call out trollish behavior and outright repeated lying so the thread isn't filled with a pack of lies or at least someone can decide that for themselves by verifying their or my own comments I'm a shill.

Are you seeing a pattern here mate? Maybe I'm not the one that's the problem on this board. Have you even bothered to read the shit the others here are posting?

Variise said:

For someone who claims to work, or has worked, in the industry you seem to know next to nothing about this process that happens all the time. I'm guessing you are in the cubicles. That explains a lot actually.

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Variise said:

I have repeatedly said I'm not an expert, not in the game industry (never was)

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Yep, you totally never try to pass yourself off as an expert.

Skanda having some knowledge is not the same thing is expertise. I would say it's the accumulation of knowledge that makes you an expert.

I don't know everything about SC but I know more than the vast majority of people that claim to be fanboys and following it since Day 1. I get shit on by them in other forums like Reddit when I point out blatant mistakes or people trying to make the game out as something it's not. Not always but it happens. However I'm not an expert. Even I make mistakes on the information I have on the game. I just make significantly fewer ones than most.

As for game development...

Denaut may be an expert in what he does specifically but that does not mean he knows anything about SC or its early development period. That much is clear. He knows that devs will write up the direction the game will take and that's part of a pitch. That design document was not something that was shared with backers during the Kickstarter or later since it included SQ42 details that Chris and Dave came up with during that first year. The major outline of the story and the majority of major gameplay elements were outlined in that document. He was suggesting it never existed and therefore they did nothing the first 1.5 years simply because I didn't mention it.

This is the problem. When I go deep into detail people bitch and moan. If I give short answers it's the same thing. Can't win.

The assets that were created by Sean and a couple of other guys at CryTek was originally done by CryTek (they asked for volunteers) to convince Chris to get CryEngine. IIRC it was later polished and PR material added to it and shown during the Kickstarter as a visual representation of what he wanted to achieve. I'm pretty sure Sean Tracy at CIG that organized that. Not that care but if you wanted to you could Google this or even msg Sean or his team and get an answer eventually. Just probably not until after CitizenCon since they are super busy.

So yeah I know what a design document is, I know what a pitch is but I don't know everything surrounding it. I do know within a fair margin of error what CIG did with both and immediately after the pitch to backers. That just makes me knowledgeable on SC and shows I know a tiny bit about game development. That does not make me an expert.

Variise said:

Second this is your first experience with game development so you simply don't realize that everything is constantly changing until the game goes into Beta and even in Beta things like the UI, class balance etc. all change right up to and past release for any game ever made. What doesn't or rather shouldn't change in Beta is features as those should be locked down.

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Nope, not claiming to be an expert.

I can go on all day because you do this in most of your posts. You're the Furry of game development. You take the tiniest bit of knowledge and decide that that makes you knowledgeable and better than the professionals.

Variise said:

So yeah I know what a design document is,

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If you had any idea what a Design Doc REALLY was then you wouldn't be sitting here trying to defend a game developer that kept changing major systems this far into development.

Oh and one more thing regarding Design Documents. The moment they are written and production starts, unless you are building a LEGO game with a 11th generation engine and never adding a feature or COD:MW2, it's immediately out of date.

The reason that document is out of date is because things you planned for don't work or change as production progresses. Only the most rigid building block production won't require a changing design document. A game that has even a single significant feature will have that document change and therefore it will have a ripple effect on the entire project. This was true in DA:I with 4 legged animation/rig implementation.

SC is not COD:MW2 which is basically a Copy/Paste effort with some few new art assets. SC needs to innovate to meet even its original Kickstarter goals and that means the design document will change and work you created can be thrown out.

Work that is thrown out is not always useless. The original ship destruction system breed a replacement that is infinitely more efficient and instead of spending 6 months on a ship it's down to maybe 1-2. This is true of the entire ship pipeline. This is true of the ground asset creation and placing tools and the ones they are claiming will be shown off at CitizenCon.

Someone who works in the industry or even has a small passive knowledge of the industry would know that things change and sometimes drastically from the original design document and assets can end up becoming useless. Or I guess they wouldn't if they are new or never worked on any innovative product which to be honest is entirely possible in the current console centric game development environment.

Nope, that entire post doesn't reek one bit of "I'm an expert".

Skanda said:

Nope, not claiming to be an expert.

I can go on all day because you do this in most of your posts. You're the Furry of game development. You take the tiniest bit of knowledge and decide that that makes you knowledgeable and better than the professionals.



If you had any idea what a Design Doc REALLY was then you wouldn't be sitting here trying to defend a game developer that kept changing major systems this far into development.

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What professionals? You mean the ones that work in an industry that innovates only at a barely observable snails pace due to consolitis? That's only proof of what I have said previously and what others here and in other threads bitch about which is copy/paste games or games that may have new visual tech that may be a mile wide but an inch deep and the millions that buy them stop playing them after just a few weeks/months.

Passing that off as proof that I'm wrong simply because CIG has decided to blow a huge chunk of cash to front load most of the tech it thinks it needs for the next 10 years (you can debate if it will last 10 days or 10 years) instead of doing what ED did is only proof that they are using a different development methodology. Most production houses don't do that simply because they don't need to since they don't innovate if it's a single player or in a case like ED and others they will pay for it later when they have to scrap and re-do much of their engine to fit future features in it they didn't plan for or the engine was never written for. Or they abandon those plans which is the most popular solution for developers. People just conveniently forget that.

As for the Design Document. The game is unique just in the fact that it has so many features that many players and devs in the industry claimed was impossible to implement. Many of those impossible features are there or apparently soon with 3.0 and later builds. This does mean that the game has a long and drawn out Alpha still until it does enter Beta at some point but that's all. Nobody knows when this game is coming out. You comparing it to other games makes no sense since there is no other game to compare it to. Perhaps Destiny in terms of hyped promises until that developer axed 75% of the features and stopped responding to fan criticism... but wait here comes Destiny 2. That's what you want? More of the same bullshit pulled by the usual suspects?

Trying to compare the Design Document process for SC to other games is pointless.