Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

Variise

N00b
497
17
Not sure where you are getting the idea that I'm advocating for shaky cam or a gimmick.

CIG already solved the problem once.

It's every other game that uses a gimmick simply because they don't know what else to do.

Ultimately this will be answered once all the features required to make it work properly are implemented so we can try it. None of that will happen until 3.0 because they need the StarNetwork to replace the entire netcode and flawed physics programming that is forcing the game to stutter.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,437
80,985
I really hope they don't stick with retard-cam to satiate people like Variise.

Same with all the other dumb features people are asking for.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

tyen

EQ in a browser wait time: ____
<Banned>
4,638
5,164
But how are we gonna know if our body is behind a wall while peaking around a corner in first person! FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!

>_<
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
If this was 2015 pre-stabilization reveal you had a very valid point and I shared it.

Tuco you are being incredulous and tyen you are just a troll.
 

tyen

EQ in a browser wait time: ____
<Banned>
4,638
5,164
whatev shaky cam man.

dont think motion sickness is a good selling point for any game
 

tyen

EQ in a browser wait time: ____
<Banned>
4,638
5,164
Yes, from this video that you linked about "Vision Stabilization" it WILL make people motion sick. It is that fucking bad.

it's like they intentionally lag the fps just to try and be cool. It serves no purpose but to annoy the shit out of people.

You don't really notice it in this video until he starts turning. I don't know why the dude is shooting his gun without moving. The whole point in showing off vision stabilization is when the camera is in movement, not stationary.

Anyway, anytime this nerd spins around or turns, im like, wtf mate.

 
Last edited:

Variise

N00b
497
17
That's not head bobing. That's motion blur which is an entirely different issue. One I agree with you 100%.

Here is what I would consider a sensible implementation in BF1.

What I miss in the SC video they posted is running. He runs exactly once facing the ground. That pisses me off.

Btw I went back and checked through most of the modern FPS games and virtually ALL of them have head bobing except the HALO series.

Also while I did that I kept watching the above video with those videos. Dude what head bobing? That's gun bobing which is again an entirely different thing one which is NOT going away.

Stop staring at the gun while watching the video. Your perception is getting fucked up doing that.

The reason why the gun bobing is there is due to tactical gameplay direction vs the usual bullshit you see in COD/Battlefield/Overwatch etc.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
Don't think I ever posted a 10FTC before. I don't because it's mostly wishy washy fluff and even I stopped watching it a year ago. Thankfully it's dead.

This is a new format they are doing where they actually show you what they are doing just like the weekly ATV I been posting.

This 10FTC is about characters and character creation specifically. I'll break it down but here is the full video.

The reason I even bothered to do this break down over the past hour+ is because I want you to see that they are actually answering some tough questions that up to this point have received fluff answers. You can decide for yourself if you want to see an answer to a specific question.

I strongly suggest checking out Answer 9. Most of you probably don't give a shit about any of the others.

Question 1: "So we know that character heads will be scanned in, however will we be able to manipulate these scanned versions to customize them to create our own characters or will we only be able to select a specific set? For example facial features, body morphology etc."
Answer 1.
Question 2: "Are both wondering about hairstyles and how customizable they will be?"
Answer 2.
Question 3: "Will the amount of detail in the character creation let me make my own doppelganger?"
Answer 3.
Question 4: "Character heads as in the modeling of the heads? If so, I'm curious about how long the process takes to model an in-game render of someone's face."
Answer 4.
Question 5: "Wouldn't it be nice to get some faces from your Backers? Is that even possible? Can you tell us what is the hardest part of character creation and why?"
Answer 5.
Question 6: "How soon will we begin to see heads on the npcs or players in the PU? that would make for some nice variety. And how editable will they be once implemented for character creation?"
Answer 6.
Question 7: "Will the faces we see on our characters, other players, and regular NPC's be of the fidelity we saw on the character in "Pupil to Planet" (or better), or more simple like the characters in the Morrow Tour video?"
Answer 7.
Question 8: "Will animations adept to our characters as they get older or recover from past injuries? For example, if my character is lucky enough to reach old age, will he or she take longer to stand up after sitting or perhaps start to walk with a limp having been shot in the leg earlier in the game?"
Answer 8.
Question 9: "With a large number of incredibly detailed characters at once, both NPC and player, what's the design plan to keep this from blowing up client resources within the persistent world game?"
Answer 9.
Question 10: "The two character design approaches I'm familiar with are the traditional choose from a number of presets approach or the newer, actually being able to edit vertex points within certain ranges approach like in Black Desert. Which approach is Star Citizen going to use? Or has the crew come up with an even more diabolical approach that will knock our sucks off?"
Answer 10.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
So it's floaty or shaky cam. Can't be both.

And no I will continue to post actual content where they show you shit and not just blab.

And with that they posted this weeks ATV so I'm watching that then posting a write up if it's good.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
This weeks ATV is from the German office in Frankfurt that works on FPS, StarEngine and tools used for rapid content creation as well as patching among many others. Full video here.

Most of you don't give a shit about most of this so skip to the 3rd link about FPS.

1. Weapons Team update: Quick clip on new FPS weapons they are working on for SC Alpha 2.6 (Star Marine) and SQ42 and some older ones they are polishing with new tech.
2. Level Design Team update: First part of clip is a modular system used to rapidly create satelites that looks like how real life space stations are built via modules. Second part of clip is the modular system used to create small outposts (small camps & research facilities) on planets for SC Alpha 3.0.
3. Behind the Scenes: Vision Stabilization: Ivo Herzeg who created the current FPS visual system talks about everything all of you have been talking about. He not only brings those issues up but they actually show it to you in this video. Camera directly attached to head, vision stabilization enabled that only works via distance but not up close or strafing and finally the full implementation.

Now it makes sense why in the earlier video the guy is looking down so much. They are just proving that everything is real with no tricks since you can see it in the shadow (based on the 3D character body) as well as the body movement in 1st person all lining up.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that in the 3rd clip they actually show you the full implementation while running all over the place. So complaint checked.
 

Variise

N00b
497
17
Very strongly suggest people read that.

Overall I would grade this article fair but spotty. That in itself is unusual since either you get fluff or 100% biased bullshit. 3/5 stars IMO

Kind of surprised they completely glossed over the fact that other studios poached all of their top Austin talent immediately after hiring. Like within weeks to a couple of months. This alone held up 64 bit conversion for 6-12 months which in turn held up engine rewrites until after the German studio stepped in.

You don't spend huge piles of money on talent you largely don't need (SWTOR requires high level physics programmers?) unless you want to relatively cheaply sabotage a potential competitor.

EDIT: Before anyone asks yes I read it. Since I been in the trenches since Day 1 they didn't write anything I didn't already know. Hell some of it I mentioned myself here. Just most people don't realize the implications of what I write since they don't follow game development.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,202
23,396
Yes, from this video that you linked about "Vision Stabilization" it WILL make people motion sick. It is that fucking bad.

it's like they intentionally lag the fps just to try and be cool. It serves no purpose but to annoy the shit out of people.

You don't really notice it in this video until he starts turning. I don't know why the dude is shooting his gun without moving. The whole point in showing off vision stabilization is when the camera is in movement, not stationary.

Anyway, anytime this nerd spins around or turns, im like, wtf mate.


That's just mouse smoothing + motion blur, and those are things most mouse users will turn off.

I'm sure it's helpful for VR or other head-tracking users.
 

Blackwulf

N00b
999
18

Yeah, amazingly, Kotaku actually wrote a well-researched, thorough article on a subject. I enjoyed the read, even though nothing was really new if you've been closely following the development of SC. My favorite part was when he went into a three or four paragraph about how ex-devs described three major things that couldn't be done (highly detailed characters, layered clothing/inventory, unified 3rd/1st person perspective), and now those things are actually already accomplished an in working builds of the game.

A notable quote I enjoyed: Todd Papy, design director at the Frankfurt studio, had this to say: “I'm a firm believer of 'You tell me I can't do that and I will prove you wrong'.

Notable because that's the kind of attitude I think Roberts has been fishing for in his team, and why a lot of friction occurred during the first few years of company growth. Lots of guys who came over from established gaming companies were used to the way things "were done" in the industry. They weren't ready to think outside the box, innovate, and figure out problems that "can't be solved." Naturally these guys are going to sound sandy about the CIG and Roberts. It's human nature - if I said something couldn't be done, I'd be rooting for you to fail because I don't want to look stupid if you succeed. Really this describes 90% of the drama associated with this game.

I'm not surprised by some of the problems that occurred during the growth of the studios and R&D phase of the game's development, but seeing it all laid out like that, you realize how lucky Roberts was the Crytek ran into trouble and he could poach a couple hundred really talented engine devs. If that didn't happen, I think this game might have failed or at least taken a couple years longer than it's going to.

As it stands, most of the really "impossible" R&D is supposedly done:
  • 64 bit engine conversion
  • unified 1st and 3rd person animations/camera
  • localized geometry grids to allow for different gravity maps, etc. in multi crew ships and vehicles
  • seamless transitions from planets to space, etc.
  • layered inventory
  • highly detailed (single player game quality) characters
  • Items 2.0 (allows the removal of the "use" prompt and makes complex items systems possible - think ship engineering, etc.)
  • Subsumption - at least the first tier of this is complete
I know I'm missing some, but also there are things that weren't "impossible" but required R&D before they were a benefit to development:
  • Procedural planet tech
  • Tools to create modular bases/satellites/buildings/ships/characters/etc.
I'm starting to bore myself, so you guys, if you read this, are probably bored. You get the idea. The reason I'm optimistic about this game is because those things are largely done. There are only a couple actual technical hurdles left. One of them is updating the Netcode. Supposedly the first pass of this is done and ready for version 3.0. We'll see!