Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Lithose

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Yeah, Finn is more like Luke than Rey is.
That is what it felt like to me as well. Finn is very much someone pushed into the world and taking missteps. Rey felt more like The Long Kiss Goodnight, where she was someone who didn't remember that she had all these skills. There were clues seemed like they were strewn about, like "you can understand him?!" and she just looks confused "Of course" (She has tons of skills she thinks are just natural, but they made it a point to show they aren't.)

If those aren't clues and are in fact just them pointing out she is super human because reasons, it's going to be a very silly character. But I think it will be the "reveal" in the trilogy. JJ specifically likes that secret box shit he talks about (Where every story has to have a reveal)...its why he pulled that Khan stunt in Star Trek.
 

Famm

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I see you are extremely threatened by a strong independent woman, Lithose. That's sad.
 

The Ancient_sl

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That is what it felt like to me as well. Finn is very much someone pushed into the world and taking missteps. Rey felt more like The Long Kiss Goodnight, where she was someone who didn't remember that she had all these skills. There were clues seemed like they were strewn about, like "you can understand him?!" and she just looks confused "Of course" (She has tons of skills she thinks are just natural, but they made it a point to show they aren't.)

If those aren't clues and are in fact just them pointing out she is super human because reasons, it's going to be a very silly character. But I think it will be the "reveal" in the trilogy. JJ specifically likes that secret box shit he talks about (Where every story has to have a reveal)...its why he pulled that Khan stunt in Star Trek.
I do think Mary Sue might be a little harsh. Even outside of the fact that we don't know her whole backstory, she certainly has legitimate reasons to be more competent than Farmboy Luke was, she had a very different upbringing. We've also yet to see her entire character arc. She definitely pales in comparison to the ultimate Mary Sue, little Ani "born of the force" Skywalker.
 

Lithose

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I do think Mary Sue might be a little harsh. Even outside of the fact that we don't know her whole backstory, she certainly has legitimate reasons to be more competent than Farmboy Luke was, she had a very different upbringing. We've also yet to see her entire character arc. She definitely pales in comparison to the ultimate Mary Sue, little Ani "born of the force" Skywalker.
Yeah, I'd only call her a Mary Sue if thereisn'ta reveal later that she's actually had training and thus has legitimate reasons for those skills. I think given the clues we are bound to see that she has indeed has training (As everyone here pointed out). If that's the case then no, she's not a Mary Sue. She just appears to be one right now because we're all in the dark still, we're seeing the result, with no explanation.

Overall, her character was fine if she had that background. My only issue was really the movie not explaining it, which made act 3's show down less than stellar for all the reasons brought up there. The final act show down would have been a lot better, in my opinion, if we had learned through the course of events within the film that she was a padawan who had gotten the same level of training as Kylo, and they had a shared history they had both forgotten (Keep the personal aspects of it secret sure, but show the training). I feel like the entire final act would have then CLEARLY made sense, rather than what we got (Which was a lot of conjecture and reading between the lines, which will hopefully be explained in the next film).

Someone else said it before, but explanations for events in thecurrentfilm, shouldn't be pushed onto the next film in my opinion (You can have clues and quirks that develop later, but not major conflicts). That just makes a weaker "current" film, what you're currently watching needs to have a strong internal logic to maintain that suspension of disbelief. But overall, yes, I think her back story will have most of this make sense, and by then, when in the context of the overall trilogy, that final duel will make sense. (Which still means the first movie has an issue, I think. But Rey as a character, and Kylo, and the overall story of the trilogy will be solid.)

I see you are extremely threatened by a strong independent woman, Lithose. That's sad.
The whole time I was asking my wife why she wasn't in the kitchen making Han Solo sandwiches.
 

Royal

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Yeah, I'd only call her a Mary Sue if thereisn'ta reveal later that she's actually had training and thus has legitimate reasons for those skills.
You mean specifically her force abilities right? Her technical savvy is pretty well established by her growing up as a scavenger and she mentioned that she had done some piloting before.
 

Lithose

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You mean specifically her force abilities right? Her technical savvy is pretty well established by her growing up as a scavenger and she mentioned that she had done some piloting before.
Yeah, the languages, force abilities, combat skills. It's okay to toss out a few skills with "saying" and not showing; kind of. If I watch the originals, Luke fighting in a military (Rebel or otherwise) fighter formation because he knew how to shoot wamp rats was laughable bullshit (Really, what happened there, did Leia order the commander to give him a ship? lol). But as said, you get a couple of those moments in any given movie that can be explained with throw away lines (I'm a decent pilot!)--as long as the character still has other short comings, and evidence of his origin, it can still feel natural (Its really about degrees, how many times you rely on telling and not showing, a few will slide)

Her being good with those things (Piloting, Mechanics), as well as an expert in hand to hand (Staff) combat, knowing tons of force tricks, already able to use telekensis on the same level of Luke on Hoth, and a ton of other stuff? We really needed some background for that many things. Because without the notion that she had previous training, that would have felt absurd. Now, we did have that notion but the issue was, we were forced to think that with little evidence. The movie should have just provided more evidence/visuals to maintain that needed internal narrative that this was not some naive scavenging scrub from a back water, but actually someone with training who was stashed away.

In my opinion, they gave enough of that info in the movie where it didn't sour MY suspension of disbelief completely--but not nearly enough to make it really enjoyable. Its why the end felt very...out of place, or a little silly for a lot people I think. Her skills should have been explained better.
 

Mures

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Also, lol at everyone jumping when she touched the lightsaber. That shit was loud as fuck.

EDIT: As a result of the giggling crowd I apparently missed whatever Ben/Yoda say during her vision.
The last thing that is said in her vision is Ewan McGregor saying, "These are your first steps."
 

Royal

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Quite a few of Game of Thrones cast members had cameos in TFA.

One of the Sand Snakes was a Resistance X-Wing pilot. The First Order officer that said "We have an unscheduled departure ..." when Finn and Poe made their escape was Jojen Reed. Grenn was one of the Knights of Ren. One of the patrons in Maz's cantina was Syrio Forel.
 

Siddar

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Well I got this framed Kylo Ren poster as a Christmas gift and now someone wants to know where I'm going to hang it.

Ugh.
 

The Ancient_sl

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Quite a few of Game of Thrones cast members had cameos in TFA.

One of the Sand Snakes was a Resistance X-Wing pilot. The First Order officer that said "We have an unscheduled departure ..." when Finn and Poe made their escape was Jojen Reed. Grenn was one of the Knights of Ren. One of the patrons in Maz's cantina was Syrio Forel.
I think it's fair to call Brienne of Tarth's contribution to the film a cameo.
 

Jait

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Rey mirrors Luke right down to bathing and or saving droids. It's obvious. Finn is Han. Douchebag with a conscious, Han always seemed very stormtrooperish in the 70s and early 80s I remember kids arguing he was trained by Imperials long before any storyline was hashed out. So it may just be my experiences that take me that route.
 

khorum

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I only today realized that Poe Dameron is also the crazy AI-inventor guy from Ex Machina and stars as Apocalypse in the new Xmen movie.

I did recall hearing before that he had been in Ex Machina and briefly wondered: "as who? There's only like 6 actors in that whole movie...maybe he was the pilot?"
You didnt notice the blonde dude in Ex Machina was general hux?
 

Tanoomba

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Finally saw this today and really enjoyed it.

Things I loved:
- REALLY felt like Star Wars. There were a ton of throwbacks: Snow terrain, desert terrain, "I've got a bad feeling about this", varying alien species assembled in a venue with an alien band playing, planet-destroying super-weapon, trench run (including Porkins substitute), screen wipes, familiar score, etc, etc. Surprisingly no hands chopped off, though.
- The original trilogy characters looked and played fantastic. Han was weathered but still maintained his cool, Leia was composed and conveyed the proper degree of emotion, Luke looked fucking fantastic with his Obi-Wan homage... I went in expecting to groan at the shoehorned-in seniors but I was pleasantly surprised.
- None of the humor or stuff aimed at kids was overdone or exaggerated. The jokes didn't pull you out of the moment and often added a welcome dose of light-heartedness (I loved the BB8 thumbs-up).
- The action was great. Keeping a lot of the vehicle battles close to the ground actually made them feel fresh and exciting.
- There were a couple of CG characters that kind of stood out (goggles lady and giant throne guy), but otherwise there didn't seem to be much noticeable CG to pull you out of the experience.
- Excellent decision to keep some characters out of the spotlight (Luke and Artoo come to mind) in order to allow the main characters room to breathe.
- The killing off of an important character was done appropriately and worked well within the story.

Things I'm a bit "meh" about:
- Han's a VERY seasoned pilot who knows the Millenium Falcon inside out... Does he really have no idea whether or not you can go inter hyperspeed from a standing position in a docking bay?
- Similarly, he's clearly never left Chewie's side in many years. Why is he now acting like he's seeing Chewie's bowcaster in action for the first time? "Hey, can I try that?" "Well, sure Han, it has been 40 years, I guess I'll let you have a shot."
- Why is Finn the only Stormtrooper ever to question what he's doing and act on it? If they had included some kind of event that gave him a different perspective than the other Stormtroopers it might have made sense, but he was justthat one guywho didn't like shooting innocent people.
- Similarly, Finn didn't seem to have to overcome any demons before he began gunning down his former comrades in cold blood. Sure, they're the bad guys but, like him, they had no say in the matter, right? They were just better at sticking to their training than he was.
- Threepio's awkward line "Maybe you don't remember me because of my red arm". That seemedreallyout of place, especially since they don't even explain the red arm (saving that for a sequel or spinoff, I guess).
- Not a single line from Luke? Not one?
- Not enough explanation of whether or not Leia has any awareness of/ability to control her own force powers. I don't think we got anything more than a telepathic reaction when Han was iced.

Overall REALLY liked it, though. An hour and a half later and I was already getting the urge to watch it again.
 

Siddar

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Rey mirrors Luke right down to bathing and or saving droids. It's obvious. Finn is Han. Douchebag with a conscious, Han always seemed very stormtrooperish in the 70s and early 80s I remember kids arguing he was trained by Imperials long before any storyline was hashed out. So it may just be my experiences that take me that route.
Both Rey and Fin are Luke type characters, so is BB-8. Poe would be the closest the new characters get to a Han type. They tried to give Finn some Han type traits but it is completely erased by his Like like whiteknight traits.
 

Khalan

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- Why is Finn the only Stormtrooper ever to question what he's doing and act on it? If they had included some kind of event that gave him a different perspective than the other Stormtroopers it might have made sense, but he was justthat one guywho didn't like shooting innocent people.
He isn't. See every Imperial pilot, officer, and solider who defected to the rebel alliance (I.e a lot)
 

Shonuff

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1st of all that's a pretty low bar

2nd I doubt it. Saw the trailer last night when I went to see SW TFA. Color me unimpressed

3rd SW TFA was good, it was great the first time I saw it back in 1977 fourth best movie of the saga
There's a difference between a flop, and highest selling movie for the company.
 

Royal

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Threepio's awkward line "Maybe you don't remember me because of my red arm". That seemedreallyout of place, especially since they don't even explain the red arm (saving that for a sequel or spinoff, I guess).
The arm was a temporary replacement. He mentions needing to get his regular arm reinstalled. If you look in the crowd of Resistance members gathered to see Rey off at the end you'll notice he has his old gold arm back and there is a red protocol droid in the crowd as well which I would guess was the "donor".

As for his remark about it stating the obvious was always one of 3PO's comedic quirks, especially with Han.